From g8ecj at gilks.org  Sat Apr  3 23:57:01 2010
From: g8ecj at gilks.org (Robin Gilks)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 10:57:01 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Weird epgsnoop/mythfilldatabase problem
Message-ID: <22be7fc23a8a3044b8cfc89d3c6f03e3.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>

I'm getting some data generated by epgnoop that looks OK by eye but
mythfilldatabase complains about as follows:

2010-04-04 10:47:57.509 XMLTV config file is:
/home/mythtv/.mythtv/S-Video.xmltv
2010-04-04 10:47:57.509 New DB connection, total: 4
2010-04-04 10:47:57.509 Connected to database 'mythconverg' at host:
192.168.1.10
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_nz-py", line 264, in <module>
    doc = ElementTree.parse(StringIO(text)).getroot()
  File "<string>", line 45, in parse
  File "<string>", line 32, in parse
SyntaxError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 19882, column 11
2010-04-04 10:47:57.735 FillData, Error: xmltv returned error code 256
2010-04-04 10:47:57.735 Error in 1:1: unexpected end of file

If I edit out the block indicated by the error above, MFDB runs to
completion. This is the block...

 <programme start="20100405033000 +1200" stop="20100405043000 +1200"
channel="discovery.sky.co.nz">
    <title lang="eng">Did The Mob Kill JFK?</title>
    <desc>A?riveting?one-hour documentary that presents  compelling
evidence supporting the theory that the mob was behind JFK's 
assassination.</desc>
    <category>tvshow</category>
    <category>Education/Science/Factual</category>
    <rating system="SKY-NZ">
      <value>M</value>
    </rating>
  </programme>

Looks OK to me!!

-- 
Robin Gilks




From jfpn at clearfield.com  Sun Apr  4 00:53:02 2010
From: jfpn at clearfield.com (Jean-Francois Pirus)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 11:53:02 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Weird epgsnoop/mythfilldatabase problem
In-Reply-To: <22be7fc23a8a3044b8cfc89d3c6f03e3.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
References: <22be7fc23a8a3044b8cfc89d3c6f03e3.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <4BB7D4DE.10902@clearfield.com>


 > I'm getting some data generated by epgnoop that looks OK by eye but
 > mythfilldatabase complains about as follows:

It's very likely the ?

ie:
 >     <title lang="eng">Did The Mob Kill JFK?</title>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Francois Pirus     <jfp at clearfield.com>           Technical Manager
Phone (+64-9)  358 2081                          Clearfield Software Ltd
Fax   (+64-9)  358 2083                    1st Floor 8-10 Whitaker Place
Mob   (+64-21) 640 779                P O Box 3901 Auckland, New Zealand
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From g8ecj at gilks.org  Sun Apr  4 00:54:49 2010
From: g8ecj at gilks.org (Robin Gilks)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:54:49 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Weird epgsnoop/mythfilldatabase problem
In-Reply-To: <22be7fc23a8a3044b8cfc89d3c6f03e3.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
References: <22be7fc23a8a3044b8cfc89d3c6f03e3.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <cc203943fda4b60240651e53a1d77c17.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>


> I'm getting some data generated by epgnoop that looks OK by eye but
> mythfilldatabase complains about as follows:

[snip]


>  <programme start="20100405033000 +1200" stop="20100405043000 +1200"
> channel="discovery.sky.co.nz">
>     <title lang="eng">Did The Mob Kill JFK?</title>
>     <desc>A?riveting?one-hour documentary that presents  compelling
> evidence supporting the theory that the mob was behind JFK's
> assassination.</desc>
>     <category>tvshow</category>
>     <category>Education/Science/Factual</category>
>     <rating system="SKY-NZ">
>       <value>M</value>
>     </rating>
>   </programme>
>

After a *very* careful look with a hex editor I found that the <desc> line
had two spaces with the top bit set (i.e. 0xa0 rather than 0x20) which was
causing the problems!!

If its a character set problem, could it be due to the missing
declarations in the web version of the freeview listings? By not declaring
it the merge of the two sources may be getting confused. I managed to get
tv_cat to barf on the data as well as mfdb. I've not tried xmltv_join as
I've had other problems with that when run from cron (maybe a missing path
or something) - but thats another story!.

-- 
Robin Gilks





From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Sun Apr  4 01:34:45 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 12:34:45 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Daylight Saving Reversion
Message-ID: <FD330DC22B534BEEB4203408F2159F1B@dp2000xp>

I don't think my box has coped with daylight saving reversion, with program listings being an hour out today.
OK, reboot.  Same.  Hmmm  Run mythfilldatabase again as it last ran at 0204am.

I get 

2010-04-04 12:28:24.164 IconData: Updating icons for sourceid: 1
2010-04-04 12:28:25.415 DB Error (programrating insert):
Query was:
INSERT INTO programrating        ( chanid, starttime, system, rating) VALUES (?, ?,    ?,  ?)
Bindings were:
:CHANID=1006, :RATING=G, :START=2010-04-04T14:35:00, :SYS=Freeview
Driver error was [2/1062]:
QMYSQL3: Unable to execute statement
Database error was:
Duplicate entry '1006-2010-04-04 14:35:00-Freeview-G' for key 'chanid'

2010-04-04 12:28:26.197 Updated programs: 4 Unchanged programs: 2051

Also makes me wonder if its anything to do with Robin's problem?


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Sun Apr  4 01:37:51 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 12:37:51 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
Message-ID: <4BB7DF5F.2040605@openmedia.co.nz>

Got an odd issue with the EPG this morning where everything is off by an
hour until after 3pm.

Here's a sample from the EPG data

  <programme start="20100404134000 +1200" stop="20100404152000 +1200"
channel="1036.dvb.guide">
    <title lang="eng">Herbie: Fully Loaded</title>
    <desc>Herbie, the free-wheelin' Volkswagen bug with a mind of its
own, is back - and his new owner Maggie (Lindsay Lohan
) must put the car through its paces on the road to becoming a NASCAR
champion. Also s</desc>
    <category>tvshow</category>
    <category>General Show</category>
  </programme>

This looks correct with a start at 1:40pm and end a 3:20 pm.

On my box when I bring up the EPG it shows a start time of 2:30 pm and
and end time of 3:20pm. WHats really odd is this is only affecting
builds based on Ubuntu 9.10 and doesn't affect my older myPVR builds
based on Knoppmyth.

Local time on the box is correct, timezone file is correct and its
showing NZST.

Thankfully everything is OK from 3pm onwards.

Anyone else seen this?

Steve



From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Sun Apr  4 01:50:14 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 12:50:14 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
References: <4BB7DF5F.2040605@openmedia.co.nz>
Message-ID: <1DABBBF612AF4AAC8957734C4CF18A3E@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Ellis" <steven at openmedia.co.nz>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:37 PM
Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10


> Got an odd issue with the EPG this morning where everything is off by an
> hour until after 3pm.
>
> Here's a sample from the EPG data
>
>  <programme start="20100404134000 +1200" stop="20100404152000 +1200"
> channel="1036.dvb.guide">
>    <title lang="eng">Herbie: Fully Loaded</title>
>    <desc>Herbie, the free-wheelin' Volkswagen bug with a mind of its
> own, is back - and his new owner Maggie (Lindsay Lohan
> ) must put the car through its paces on the road to becoming a NASCAR
> champion. Also s</desc>
>    <category>tvshow</category>
>    <category>General Show</category>
>  </programme>
>
> This looks correct with a start at 1:40pm and end a 3:20 pm.
>
> On my box when I bring up the EPG it shows a start time of 2:30 pm and
> and end time of 3:20pm. WHats really odd is this is only affecting
> builds based on Ubuntu 9.10 and doesn't affect my older myPVR builds
> based on Knoppmyth.
>
> Local time on the box is correct, timezone file is correct and its
> showing NZST.
>
> Thankfully everything is OK from 3pm onwards.
>
> Anyone else seen this?
>

I guess by now you have the answer that you are not alone Steve.  I'm running mythbuntu 9.10 also.  I noted there were some data 
gaps in mythweb listings around 0200am today, they are now present around 1.45pm and 2.30pm, curiously this is about 12 hours later 
from the DST change.  My clock seemed to have transitioned fine. 



From nick.rout at gmail.com  Sun Apr  4 03:39:54 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 14:39:54 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
In-Reply-To: <1DABBBF612AF4AAC8957734C4CF18A3E@dp2000xp>
References: <4BB7DF5F.2040605@openmedia.co.nz>
	<1DABBBF612AF4AAC8957734C4CF18A3E@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <m2g52bd4a781004031939z65e9cb25u9bd5c7bb197b90ca@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Ellis" <steven at openmedia.co.nz>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:37 PM
> Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
>
>
>> Got an odd issue with the EPG this morning where everything is off by an
>> hour until after 3pm.
>>
>> Here's a sample from the EPG data
>>
>> ?<programme start="20100404134000 +1200" stop="20100404152000 +1200"
>> channel="1036.dvb.guide">
>> ? ?<title lang="eng">Herbie: Fully Loaded</title>
>> ? ?<desc>Herbie, the free-wheelin' Volkswagen bug with a mind of its
>> own, is back - and his new owner Maggie (Lindsay Lohan
>> ) must put the car through its paces on the road to becoming a NASCAR
>> champion. Also s</desc>
>> ? ?<category>tvshow</category>
>> ? ?<category>General Show</category>
>> ?</programme>
>>
>> This looks correct with a start at 1:40pm and end a 3:20 pm.
>>
>> On my box when I bring up the EPG it shows a start time of 2:30 pm and
>> and end time of 3:20pm. WHats really odd is this is only affecting
>> builds based on Ubuntu 9.10 and doesn't affect my older myPVR builds
>> based on Knoppmyth.
>>
>> Local time on the box is correct, timezone file is correct and its
>> showing NZST.
>>
>> Thankfully everything is OK from 3pm onwards.
>>
>> Anyone else seen this?

All fine although on 8.04 and I didn't have anything set to record
until about now anyway.

I was awake at 3.00 am, it was cool to see the time on the bedside
clock go from 2:59 to 2:00 am :)


From garrett.stoupe at gmail.com  Sun Apr  4 03:45:15 2010
From: garrett.stoupe at gmail.com (Garrett Stoupe)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 14:45:15 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] mythbuntu
Message-ID: <h2pfbecf7f01004031945jd9f12a4emf6b18e6d5717af89@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys
I am looking at setting up mythbuntu with freeview HD
dvb-t card is a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR1110 DVB-T/Hyb

1 tb hard drive
amd 64 bit x2
4 gig of ram

has anyone got any instructions or howto on setting this up?

Regards
Garrett


From david at thistledown.co.nz  Sun Apr  4 03:59:16 2010
From: david at thistledown.co.nz (David Lowe)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 14:59:16 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
In-Reply-To: <m2g52bd4a781004031939z65e9cb25u9bd5c7bb197b90ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4BB7DF5F.2040605@openmedia.co.nz>
	<1DABBBF612AF4AAC8957734C4CF18A3E@dp2000xp>
	<m2g52bd4a781004031939z65e9cb25u9bd5c7bb197b90ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <l2t5bc0decc1004031959se808a513med64f1979faec543@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I was awake at 3.00 am, it was cool to see the time on the bedside
> clock go from 2:59 to 2:00 am :)
>
>
Nick I give up. You have out-geeked me. I have submitted you to
http://alum.wpi.edu/+geek/
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From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Sun Apr  4 04:17:06 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 15:17:06 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
In-Reply-To: <1DABBBF612AF4AAC8957734C4CF18A3E@dp2000xp>
References: <4BB7DF5F.2040605@openmedia.co.nz>
	<1DABBBF612AF4AAC8957734C4CF18A3E@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <4BB804B2.6030508@openmedia.co.nz>

Tortise wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steven Ellis" <steven at openmedia.co.nz>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:37 PM
> Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
>
>
>   
>> Got an odd issue with the EPG this morning where everything is off by an
>> hour until after 3pm.
>>
>> Here's a sample from the EPG data
>>
>>  <programme start="20100404134000 +1200" stop="20100404152000 +1200"
>> channel="1036.dvb.guide">
>>    <title lang="eng">Herbie: Fully Loaded</title>
>>    <desc>Herbie, the free-wheelin' Volkswagen bug with a mind of its
>> own, is back - and his new owner Maggie (Lindsay Lohan
>> ) must put the car through its paces on the road to becoming a NASCAR
>> champion. Also s</desc>
>>    <category>tvshow</category>
>>    <category>General Show</category>
>>  </programme>
>>
>> This looks correct with a start at 1:40pm and end a 3:20 pm.
>>
>> On my box when I bring up the EPG it shows a start time of 2:30 pm and
>> and end time of 3:20pm. WHats really odd is this is only affecting
>> builds based on Ubuntu 9.10 and doesn't affect my older myPVR builds
>> based on Knoppmyth.
>>
>> Local time on the box is correct, timezone file is correct and its
>> showing NZST.
>>
>> Thankfully everything is OK from 3pm onwards.
>>
>> Anyone else seen this?
>>
>>     
>
> I guess by now you have the answer that you are not alone Steve.  I'm running mythbuntu 9.10 also.  I noted there were some data 
> gaps in mythweb listings around 0200am today, they are now present around 1.45pm and 2.30pm, curiously this is about 12 hours later 
> from the DST change.  My clock seemed to have transitioned fine. 
>
>   
Just brought up a 10.04 Beta VM and I have the same issue so it looks
like a general MythBuntu/MythTV Bug.

Steve
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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Sun Apr  4 05:05:22 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 16:05:22 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] mythbuntu
In-Reply-To: <h2pfbecf7f01004031945jd9f12a4emf6b18e6d5717af89@mail.gmail.com>
References: <h2pfbecf7f01004031945jd9f12a4emf6b18e6d5717af89@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p2j52bd4a781004032105yc00fde91w85056e98f05445eb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Garrett Stoupe <garrett.stoupe at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys
> I am looking at setting up mythbuntu with freeview HD
> dvb-t card is a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR1110 DVB-T/Hyb
>
> 1 tb hard drive
> amd 64 bit x2
> 4 gig of ram
>
> has anyone got any instructions or howto on setting this up?
>
> Regards
> Garrett


1. I know nothing about your capture card, hopefully it works with linux :)

2. I would, at this stage, wait for mythbuntu 10.04 which is not far
away and should have mythtv-0.23, which will be released shortly
(currently at rc2).

3. get an nvidia 8xxx, 9xxx or 2xx video card for compatibility with
vdpau, which gives video acceleration in the GPU hardware.
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Vdpau

4. Make sure you set up a separate partition for /var/lib or
/var/lib/mythtv. I am unclear as to whether mythbuntu does this by
default now.

5. Conventional wisdom is to have the OS and database on a different
disk to your data, (which is in /var/lib/mythtv/). May pay to get the
smallest hard drive you can find (which is probably about 100G and
overkill) to use for /




>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Sun Apr  4 06:06:55 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 17:06:55 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
In-Reply-To: <4BB804B2.6030508@openmedia.co.nz>
References: <4BB7DF5F.2040605@openmedia.co.nz>	<1DABBBF612AF4AAC8957734C4CF18A3E@dp2000xp>
	<4BB804B2.6030508@openmedia.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4BB81E6F.4000604@openmedia.co.nz>

Steven Ellis wrote:
> Tortise wrote:
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steven Ellis" <steven at openmedia.co.nz>
>> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:37 PM
>> Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
>>
>>
>>   
>>> Got an odd issue with the EPG this morning where everything is off by an
>>> hour until after 3pm.
>>>
>>> Here's a sample from the EPG data
>>>
>>>  <programme start="20100404134000 +1200" stop="20100404152000 +1200"
>>> channel="1036.dvb.guide">
>>>    <title lang="eng">Herbie: Fully Loaded</title>
>>>    <desc>Herbie, the free-wheelin' Volkswagen bug with a mind of its
>>> own, is back - and his new owner Maggie (Lindsay Lohan
>>> ) must put the car through its paces on the road to becoming a NASCAR
>>> champion. Also s</desc>
>>>    <category>tvshow</category>
>>>    <category>General Show</category>
>>>  </programme>
>>>
>>> This looks correct with a start at 1:40pm and end a 3:20 pm.
>>>
>>> On my box when I bring up the EPG it shows a start time of 2:30 pm and
>>> and end time of 3:20pm. WHats really odd is this is only affecting
>>> builds based on Ubuntu 9.10 and doesn't affect my older myPVR builds
>>> based on Knoppmyth.
>>>
>>> Local time on the box is correct, timezone file is correct and its
>>> showing NZST.
>>>
>>> Thankfully everything is OK from 3pm onwards.
>>>
>>> Anyone else seen this?
>>>
>>>     
>>
>> I guess by now you have the answer that you are not alone Steve.  I'm running mythbuntu 9.10 also.  I noted there were some data 
>> gaps in mythweb listings around 0200am today, they are now present around 1.45pm and 2.30pm, curiously this is about 12 hours later 
>> from the DST change.  My clock seemed to have transitioned fine. 
>>
>>   
> Just brought up a 10.04 Beta VM and I have the same issue so it looks
> like a general MythBuntu/MythTV Bug.
>
Ok bug has been reported to Ubuntu and MythTV with sample data. Looks
like we have about 6 months until it hits us again ;)

See
 * http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8286
 * https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/554972

Steve

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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Sun Apr  4 07:57:45 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:57:45 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DST Bug under Ubuntu 9.10
In-Reply-To: <l2t5bc0decc1004031959se808a513med64f1979faec543@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4BB7DF5F.2040605@openmedia.co.nz>
	<1DABBBF612AF4AAC8957734C4CF18A3E@dp2000xp>
	<m2g52bd4a781004031939z65e9cb25u9bd5c7bb197b90ca@mail.gmail.com>
	<l2t5bc0decc1004031959se808a513med64f1979faec543@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <y2x52bd4a781004032357s5d4718d5ge73e172c35d4b91@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 2:59 PM, David Lowe <david at thistledown.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was awake at 3.00 am, it was cool to see the time on the bedside
>> clock go from 2:59 to 2:00 am :)
>>
>
> Nick I give up. You have out-geeked me. I have submitted you to
> http://alum.wpi.edu/+geek/
>

Believe me I didn't WANT to be awake at 3.00/2.00 am, I really wanted
to know if it wa the forst 2.00 am or the second. As soon as I knew I
closed my eyes and stopped clock watching.

The clock is intelligent because it s really a squeezebox boom and
gets it's time from the server, which is on a my backend.


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Sun Apr  4 23:25:22 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:25:22 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
Message-ID: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>

Hello all,

I've spent a long time trying to narrow this down, but I'm really 
struggling and could do with any help/suggestions that you can come up with.

I have run Mythbuntu for quite a long time. We used 9.10 without too 
much trouble. After some updates near the beginning of this year, 
Mythbuntu started stalling for 1-3 minutes at a time, with the hard disk 
light on solidly and nothing else working. The system would be virtually 
unresponsive, but would slowly crawl to a terminal etc. Then, after 
about 1-3 mins, it would be back to normal. I can't see anything that 
could be causing the problem in top, iotop or the system logs. There are 
some entries in the logs about different kernel tasks being killed 
because they didn't start properly in 120 seconds, but I think that is a 
symptom rather than a cause.

I have now changed the card to an nVidia and am using the proprietary 
drivers. I've removed one of the tuner cards. I upgraded the system to 
Lucid Beta and downloaded all the latest updates. The problem is still 
occurring, even when all I was doing was browsing folders in Thunar, so 
that suggests to me that it isn't MythTV causing this (mythbackend is 
still running, but I haven't loaded in the database or set anything up). 
To give an idea of the problem, running a 42 minute video in VLC took 53 
mins with the stalls.  The memory looks okay (I have 2GB in it), with 
free -m showing most "used", but "cached".

I haven't yet sorted out all of the VDPAU etc., but I'm guessing that 
those are unlikely to solve the problem when it stalls the system so 
much that even a terminal can't work.  Given that it isn't showing in 
top/iotop, I'm wondering if it is something really low-level. On the 
other hand, I would have thought it would need to be hardware-specific 
or everyone would be complaining.

If anyone can help me, it would make a huge difference -- even if only 
to suggest more diagnostics or logs to review.

Thanks in advance,

Aaron


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Sun Apr  4 23:33:30 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:33:30 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <4BB913BA.6020807@whitehouse.org.nz>

Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've spent a long time trying to narrow this down, but I'm really 
> struggling and could do with any help/suggestions that you can come up with.

In case it is helpful, I use an AMD 780G board with a 1TB Western 
Digital EAS HDD and a 2.4GHz (or thereabouts) Sempron CPU. I have 2 GB 
RAM and have just added an nVidia 8600GT 512MB. I was previously using 
analogue TV over a pvr150 tuner and a bttv tuner. I have just replaced 
the pvr150 with a Hauppauge hvr-2200.


From john at enuffsaid.co.nz  Mon Apr  5 00:01:08 2010
From: john at enuffsaid.co.nz (John Russell)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:01:08 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <201004051101.08984.john@enuffsaid.co.nz>

Well I'm not a Ubuntu user, but I have in the past has issues with desktop 
indexing/search tools like Beagle and Strigi doing similar things on Suse and 
Mandriva.  Anything like that running?  Have you checked for anything 
interesting with dmesg or in /var/log/messages?


On Monday 05 Apr 2010 10:25:22 Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've spent a long time trying to narrow this down, but I'm really
> struggling and could do with any help/suggestions that you can come up
>  with.
> 
> I have run Mythbuntu for quite a long time. We used 9.10 without too
> much trouble. After some updates near the beginning of this year,
> Mythbuntu started stalling for 1-3 minutes at a time, with the hard disk
> light on solidly and nothing else working. The system would be virtually
> unresponsive, but would slowly crawl to a terminal etc. Then, after
> about 1-3 mins, it would be back to normal. I can't see anything that
> could be causing the problem in top, iotop or the system logs. There are
> some entries in the logs about different kernel tasks being killed
> because they didn't start properly in 120 seconds, but I think that is a
> symptom rather than a cause.
> 
> I have now changed the card to an nVidia and am using the proprietary
> drivers. I've removed one of the tuner cards. I upgraded the system to
> Lucid Beta and downloaded all the latest updates. The problem is still
> occurring, even when all I was doing was browsing folders in Thunar, so
> that suggests to me that it isn't MythTV causing this (mythbackend is
> still running, but I haven't loaded in the database or set anything up).
> To give an idea of the problem, running a 42 minute video in VLC took 53
> mins with the stalls.  The memory looks okay (I have 2GB in it), with
> free -m showing most "used", but "cached".
> 
> I haven't yet sorted out all of the VDPAU etc., but I'm guessing that
> those are unlikely to solve the problem when it stalls the system so
> much that even a terminal can't work.  Given that it isn't showing in
> top/iotop, I'm wondering if it is something really low-level. On the
> other hand, I would have thought it would need to be hardware-specific
> or everyone would be complaining.
> 
> If anyone can help me, it would make a huge difference -- even if only
> to suggest more diagnostics or logs to review.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Aaron
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
> 


From mythtv at somepointinthefuture.co.nz  Mon Apr  5 00:42:49 2010
From: mythtv at somepointinthefuture.co.nz (Stuart Whelan)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:42:49 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <u2ife25e3641004041642hdff17c20vb0e3338ff3fe05b4@mail.gmail.com>

Can you describe your storage setup..

- Raid?
- Number and types of Hard Drive interface (Sata/IDE/etc)?
- Any networked drives?
- S.M.A.R.T. enabled on the Motherboard?
- What does /var/log/dmesg say about storage when it gets detected?
- Any extra messages in dmesg after a long pause?

Cheers,
Stuart.


From james at booths.net.nz  Mon Apr  5 00:51:07 2010
From: james at booths.net.nz (James Booth)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:51:07 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:25:22 Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've spent a long time trying to narrow this down, but I'm really 
> struggling and could do with any help/suggestions that you can come up with.
> 
> I have run Mythbuntu for quite a long time. We used 9.10 without too 
> much trouble. After some updates near the beginning of this year, 
> Mythbuntu started stalling for 1-3 minutes at a time, with the hard disk 
> light on solidly and nothing else working. The system would be virtually 
> unresponsive, but would slowly crawl to a terminal etc. Then, after 
> about 1-3 mins, it would be back to normal. I can't see anything that 
> could be causing the problem in top, iotop or the system logs. There are 
> some entries in the logs about different kernel tasks being killed 
> because they didn't start properly in 120 seconds, but I think that is a 
> symptom rather than a cause.
> 
> I have now changed the card to an nVidia and am using the proprietary 
> drivers. I've removed one of the tuner cards. I upgraded the system to 
> Lucid Beta and downloaded all the latest updates. The problem is still 
> occurring, even when all I was doing was browsing folders in Thunar, so 
> that suggests to me that it isn't MythTV causing this (mythbackend is 
> still running, but I haven't loaded in the database or set anything up). 
> To give an idea of the problem, running a 42 minute video in VLC took 53 
> mins with the stalls.  The memory looks okay (I have 2GB in it), with 
> free -m showing most "used", but "cached".
> 
> I haven't yet sorted out all of the VDPAU etc., but I'm guessing that 
> those are unlikely to solve the problem when it stalls the system so 
> much that even a terminal can't work.  Given that it isn't showing in 
> top/iotop, I'm wondering if it is something really low-level. On the 
> other hand, I would have thought it would need to be hardware-specific 
> or everyone would be complaining.
> 
> If anyone can help me, it would make a huge difference -- even if only 
> to suggest more diagnostics or logs to review.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Aaron
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
> 

I had problems that were kind of simlar to what you describe after I went to 
9.10/0.22 and moved to DVB-T. Turned out to be mythcommflag when processing HD 
files. I could never get it to work without bringing everything down so have 
turned mythcommflag off (sadly).


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Mon Apr  5 01:58:14 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 12:58:14 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <201004051101.08984.john@enuffsaid.co.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051101.08984.john@enuffsaid.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4BB935A6.2040402@whitehouse.org.nz>

Thanks everybody for such helpful and quick responses!

===
John Russell wrote:
> Well I'm not a Ubuntu user, but I have in the past has issues with desktop 
> indexing/search tools like Beagle and Strigi doing similar things on Suse and 
> Mandriva.  Anything like that running?  

I don't think anything like that should be on a Mythbuntu system. It 
certainly isn't appearing in top or iotop.

> Have you checked for anything 
> interesting with dmesg or in /var/log/messages?

There isn't much of interest. In the syslog, I found a bunch of messages 
saying (see around line 3000):
"#
Apr  5 08:07:56 mythbuntu-server init: mythtv-backend main process 
(1414) terminated with status 254
#
Apr  5 08:07:56 mythbuntu-server init: mythtv-backend main process 
ended, respawning"

What does this status mean? I'm wondering if this problem is just 
coincidentally similar to my previous problem and this one is just 
because I haven't yet set up the database.

Syslog:
http://pastebin.com/QhH3eKNT

Dmesg:
http://pastebin.com/fd0m07Qq

Dmesg.0:
http://pastebin.com/eguWgCjT

/var/log/messages:
http://pastebin.com/GxhyEph2

===
Stuart Whelan wrote:
 > Can you describe your storage setup..

 > - Raid?
Nope.
 > - Number and types of Hard Drive interface (Sata/IDE/etc)?
Single Western Digital 1TB Green Power SATA drive.
 > - Any networked drives?
Nope.
 > - S.M.A.R.T. enabled on the Motherboard?
I think so, though I understood that SMART on the MoBo was only for the 
BIOS boot?
 > - What does /var/log/dmesg say about storage when it gets detected?
See link above.
 > - Any extra messages in dmesg after a long pause?
Not that I can see. Link above.

===
James Booth wrote:
 > I had problems that were kind of simlar to what you describe after I
 > went to 9.10/0.22 and moved to DVB-T. Turned out to be mythcommflag
 > when processing HD files. I could never get it to work without
 > bringing everything down so have turned mythcommflag off (sadly).
Thanks for the suggestion. I would be surprised if this was the problem, 
as I do not have any HD recordings yet. I am going to set up HD on this 
machine, but at the moment I have only installed Mythbuntu (choosing 
some MythTV-related options in the setup, but not installing anything 
else) and have not set up any of the MythTV database, cards etc. etc.
===

I have since stopped mythtv-backend and mysql processes and played the 
same video through. It worked without stalling. I then restarted mysql 
and the video played through (well, it hasn't finished yet, but no 
problems so far), so it does seem to be mythtv-backend.

I have tried Googling the error above, but can't find a clear answer on 
what it means.

Thanks again -- it makes such a difference to have your help.

Regards,

Aaron


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Mon Apr  5 02:13:56 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:13:56 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Mythconverg_backup.pl stopped backing up properly
Message-ID: <4BB93954.3010502@whitehouse.org.nz>

On a related note, mythconverg_backup.pl seems to have stopped working 
properly some days ago.

I have a cron job to do a backup every day at around 4am.

.sql.gz files for each day are in the correct folder until 31 March 
2010, when they change to being .sql files that are only 803 bytes 
(instead of approx 9 MB) that say the following:
-- MySQL dump 10.13  Distrib 5.1.37, for debian-linux-gnu (x86_64)
--
-- Host: localhost    Database: mythconverg
-- ------------------------------------------------------
-- Server version	5.1.37-1ubuntu5.1

/*!40101 SET @OLD_CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT=@@CHARACTER_SET_CLIENT */;
/*!40101 SET @OLD_CHARACTER_SET_RESULTS=@@CHARACTER_SET_RESULTS */;
/*!40101 SET @OLD_COLLATION_CONNECTION=@@COLLATION_CONNECTION */;
/*!40101 SET NAMES utf8 */;
/*!40103 SET @OLD_TIME_ZONE=@@TIME_ZONE */;
/*!40103 SET TIME_ZONE='+00:00' */;
/*!40014 SET @OLD_UNIQUE_CHECKS=@@UNIQUE_CHECKS, UNIQUE_CHECKS=0 */;
/*!40014 SET @OLD_FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS=@@FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS, 
FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS=0 */;
/*!40101 SET @OLD_SQL_MODE=@@SQL_MODE, SQL_MODE='NO_AUTO_VALUE_ON_ZERO' */;
/*!40111 SET @OLD_SQL_NOTES=@@SQL_NOTES, SQL_NOTES=0 */;

It looks to me as though the script is now crashing at this point.

Thankfully, I imaged the partition before I started, so I can restore 
that to take a new dump from the database (and then restore the Lucid 
partition).

Has anyone got any ideas why this may have happened? it is a pretty 
serious bug, as I didn't realise it wasn't backing up properly (it 
didn't even give an error when I did a manual mythconverg_backup from 
the command line immediately before upgrading) and I'd like to file a bug.

Once I get everything back to the old setup, I'll try running the script 
with the --verbose argument.

I'm wondering if there was some recording with a "?" or a funny 
character that stopped it, so other people may want to check their backups.

Thanks,

Aaron


From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Mon Apr  5 02:31:11 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:31:11 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>
Message-ID: <iibir51vjhi1vbv8m9ns4g28itsgq21cdv@4ax.com>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:51:07 +1200, you wrote:

>On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:25:22 Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I've spent a long time trying to narrow this down, but I'm really 
>> struggling and could do with any help/suggestions that you can come up with.
>> 
>> I have run Mythbuntu for quite a long time. We used 9.10 without too 
>> much trouble. After some updates near the beginning of this year, 
>> Mythbuntu started stalling for 1-3 minutes at a time, with the hard disk 
>> light on solidly and nothing else working. The system would be virtually 
>> unresponsive, but would slowly crawl to a terminal etc. Then, after 
>> about 1-3 mins, it would be back to normal. I can't see anything that 
>> could be causing the problem in top, iotop or the system logs. There are 
>> some entries in the logs about different kernel tasks being killed 
>> because they didn't start properly in 120 seconds, but I think that is a 
>> symptom rather than a cause.
>> 
>> I have now changed the card to an nVidia and am using the proprietary 
>> drivers. I've removed one of the tuner cards. I upgraded the system to 
>> Lucid Beta and downloaded all the latest updates. The problem is still 
>> occurring, even when all I was doing was browsing folders in Thunar, so 
>> that suggests to me that it isn't MythTV causing this (mythbackend is 
>> still running, but I haven't loaded in the database or set anything up). 
>> To give an idea of the problem, running a 42 minute video in VLC took 53 
>> mins with the stalls.  The memory looks okay (I have 2GB in it), with 
>> free -m showing most "used", but "cached".
>> 
>> I haven't yet sorted out all of the VDPAU etc., but I'm guessing that 
>> those are unlikely to solve the problem when it stalls the system so 
>> much that even a terminal can't work.  Given that it isn't showing in 
>> top/iotop, I'm wondering if it is something really low-level. On the 
>> other hand, I would have thought it would need to be hardware-specific 
>> or everyone would be complaining.
>> 
>> If anyone can help me, it would make a huge difference -- even if only 
>> to suggest more diagnostics or logs to review.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,r
>> 
>> Aaron

>I had problems that were kind of simlar to what you describe after I went to 
>9.10/0.22 and moved to DVB-T. Turned out to be mythcommflag when processing HD 
>files. I could never get it to work without bringing everything down so have 
>turned mythcommflag off (sadly).

I have had similar problems with the menus in mythfrontend becoming
unresponsive for long periods.  Once I am playing a program or video
in mythfrontend, it generally does not stall though, nor does mplayer
run from mythfrontend - maybe VLC is not running at high enough
priority and that is why it is stalling while playing.  I have found a
number of problems and have been able to make my system usable,
although the problem still happens to a much lesser extent.  In my
case, I have my system and data on one 1 Tbyte Samsung drive, with my
swap on another 500 Gbyte drive - if your system, swap and recording
storage is all on one drive, you will be even more badly affected if
you have the same problems as me.  BTW I do not have an external drive
activity LED to check, so I can not say if that symptom matches.  I
have 2 Gibytes of RAM like you, Nvidia 8400GS and Athlon X2.

These are the things I have found:

1) The number one culprit in my case was mythcommflag.  I had it set
to run two mythcommflag tasks at once (since each only uses one CPU
core and I have a dual core CPU).  But they were set to high priority
in the MythTV settings.  Changing them to low priority has been the
most important fix.  It seems that mythcommflag uses much more
resources when running on DVB-T recordings, especially HD recordings -
I used to have no problems with two high priority mythcommflag tasks
at the same time when there were only MPEG2 recordings from my
Hauppauge PVR-500 cards.  I think that running just one mythcommflag
task at once would probably fix the remaining stalls that I still
have, but I prefer to run two still as otherwise it would take too
long to process everything.

2) mythfrontend.re seems to have a memory leak.  If I let it run for
too long, it takes more and more memory and eventually everything
starts swapping.  So now I shut it down every day or so.

3) I am running KDE instead of XFCE as my desktop.  It seems that
KDE's plasma-desktop task has a massive memory leak.  I have seen it
using more than 1 Gibyte of RAM!  So I also shut it down regularly
now, usually daily.

4) Firefox also seems to have a memory leak.  If I leave it running
for a long time with lots of tabs open, it can also get to be using
more than 500 Mibytes of RAM.  It takes longer for this to happen
though.

BTW Turning off mythcommflag completely is also a reasonable option at
the moment.  It does not work on DVB-T recordings at all - the points
that it jumps to when skipping ads are *never* correct.  This may be
fixed in MythTV 0.23 (Mythbuntu 10.04), but I have yet to test that. I
have not done this as I do want to flag all my Sky recordings.

With these fixes, I can happily be recording four programs at once and
playing back another, with two mythcommflag tasks running.  The menus
are slow to respond, but not so slow as to be unusable.  I think it
would be much better again if I moved my system partition (and the
MythTV database) to a different drive, so I am looking at trying that
when (if) I find the time.  In the mean time, it is usable instead of
having to wait for minutes for a menu to respond.  A further fix would
be to add another drive for the recordings, and set mythbackend to
spread recordings across both drives.  Then things would most likely
be very responsive even with four programs recording at the same time.


From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Mon Apr  5 02:37:46 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:37:46 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BB935A6.2040402@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051101.08984.john@enuffsaid.co.nz>
	<4BB935A6.2040402@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <hbfir5thg14m660pf15j135k4g4fanjnur@4ax.com>

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 12:58:14 +1200, you wrote:

>Thanks everybody for such helpful and quick responses!
>
>===
>John Russell wrote:
>> Well I'm not a Ubuntu user, but I have in the past has issues with desktop 
>> indexing/search tools like Beagle and Strigi doing similar things on Suse and 
>> Mandriva.  Anything like that running?  
>
>I don't think anything like that should be on a Mythbuntu system. It 
>certainly isn't appearing in top or iotop.
>
>> Have you checked for anything 
>> interesting with dmesg or in /var/log/messages?
>
>There isn't much of interest. In the syslog, I found a bunch of messages 
>saying (see around line 3000):
>"#
>Apr  5 08:07:56 mythbuntu-server init: mythtv-backend main process 
>(1414) terminated with status 254
>#
>Apr  5 08:07:56 mythbuntu-server init: mythtv-backend main process 
>ended, respawning"
>
>What does this status mean? I'm wondering if this problem is just 
>coincidentally similar to my previous problem and this one is just 
>because I haven't yet set up the database.

That happens almost always when I shut down Mythbuntu 9.10.  It seems
to me that there is a bug in mythbackend - it does not respond
correctly to the signal to shut down and keeps restarting, until it
eventually gets killed by the shutdown process.  It does not take very
long for all of this, so you normally only notice if you look at the
logs, or are on the right screen to see it during shutdown.  If it is
happening at any other time than shutdown, it would be a worry, so
check your logs to see.  Fortunately there appears to be no damage to
the database from mythbackend being killed as a result of this bug.  I
have not checked to see if this bug has been reported.  Is anyone else
seeing this?


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Mon Apr  5 02:50:57 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:50:57 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Mythconverg_backup.pl stopped backing up properly
In-Reply-To: <4BB93954.3010502@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB93954.3010502@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <4BB94201.5050604@whitehouse.org.nz>

Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> On a related note, mythconverg_backup.pl seems to have stopped working 
> properly some days ago.
> Once I get everything back to the old setup, I'll try running the script 
> with the --verbose argument.

Here's the output:

===

Configuring environment:
   -    username: mythbuntu
   -        HOME: /home/mythbuntu
   - MYTHCONFDIR: /home/mythbuntu/.mythtv

Parsing configuration files:
   - checking: /home/mythbuntu/.mythtv/config.xml
      parsing: /home/mythbuntu/.mythtv/config.xml
   - checking: /home/mythbuntu/.mythtv/backuprc
      parsing: /home/mythbuntu/.mythtv/backuprc

Applying command-line arguments.

Checking configuration.

No DBSchemaVer specified, querying database.
Found DBSchemaVer: 1244.

Database Information:
          DBHostName: localhost
              DBPort: 0
          DBUserName: mythtv
          DBPassword: XXX
              DBName: mythconverg
         DBSchemaVer: 1244
   DBBackupDirectory: /home/mythbuntu/Backup/AutoMythBackups
    DBBackupFilename: mythconverg-1244-20100405134846.sql

Executables:
           mysqldump: mysqldump
            compress: gzip

Attempting to use supplied password for mysqldump.
Any [client] or [mysqldump] password specified in the MySQL options file 
will
take precedence.

Executing command:
'/usr/bin/mysqldump' --defaults-extra-file='/tmp/JDUdoBOWE8' 
--host='localhost' --user='mythtv' --add-drop-table --add-locks 
--allow-keywords --complete-insert --extended-insert --lock-tables 
--no-create-db --quick 'mythconverg' 2>&1 
1>'/home/mythbuntu/Backup/AutoMythBackups/mythconverg-1244-20100405134846.sql'

mysqldump exited with status: 2
mysqldump output:
mysqldump: Got error: 144: Table './mythconverg/recordedseek' is marked 
as crashed and last (automatic?) repair failed when using LOCK TABLES

===
Does anybody know how I can repair the recordedseek table?

Thanks

Aaron


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Mon Apr  5 03:12:09 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:12:09 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Mythconverg_backup.pl stopped backing up properly
In-Reply-To: <4BB94201.5050604@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB93954.3010502@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<4BB94201.5050604@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <4BB946F9.4050202@whitehouse.org.nz>

Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> Does anybody know how I can repair the recordedseek table?

Sorry for the noise.

For the archives, see:
http://v2kblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/fixing-mythtv-database-table.html

I did:
$ sudo chmod +x 
/usr/share/doc/mythtv-backend/contrib/maintenance/optimize_mythdb.pl

$ /usr/share/doc/mythtv-backend/contrib/maintenance/optimize_mythdb.pl

And then the backup seems to have worked.




From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Mon Apr  5 03:17:16 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:17:16 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Mythconverg_backup.pl stopped backing up properly
In-Reply-To: <4BB94201.5050604@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB93954.3010502@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<4BB94201.5050604@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <erhir51hl5l4hfaiorchcq3qbu7t509317@4ax.com>

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:50:57 +1200, you wrote:


>mysqldump exited with status: 2
>mysqldump output:
>mysqldump: Got error: 144: Table './mythconverg/recordedseek' is marked 
>as crashed and last (automatic?) repair failed when using LOCK TABLES
>
>===
>Does anybody know how I can repair the recordedseek table?
>
>Thanks
>
>Aaron
>

The MythTV Control Center has a option in it somewhere for an
automatic daily database check and optimise task to be run.  I suspect
that might do the job.  It is not on by default, but I always turn it
on.  If you have email support installed on your MythTV box, it will
email the results of its daily run to root.


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Mon Apr  5 04:10:34 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 15:10:34 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Mythconverg_backup.pl stopped backing up properly
In-Reply-To: <erhir51hl5l4hfaiorchcq3qbu7t509317@4ax.com>
References: <4BB93954.3010502@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<4BB94201.5050604@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<erhir51hl5l4hfaiorchcq3qbu7t509317@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m2m52bd4a781004042010zeeda2447x6692c704ead944ec@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Stephen Worthington
<stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:50:57 +1200, you wrote:
>
>
>>mysqldump exited with status: 2
>>mysqldump output:
>>mysqldump: Got error: 144: Table './mythconverg/recordedseek' is marked
>>as crashed and last (automatic?) repair failed when using LOCK TABLES
>>
>>===
>>Does anybody know how I can repair the recordedseek table?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Aaron
>>
>
> The MythTV Control Center has a option in it somewhere for an
> automatic daily database check and optimise task to be run. ?I suspect
> that might do the job. ?It is not on by default, but I always turn it
> on. ?If you have email support installed on your MythTV box, it will
> email the results of its daily run to root.
>

good advice, and also make sure that you have the latest backup and
restore scripts:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore


From noel at igrin.co.nz  Mon Apr  5 04:12:24 2010
From: noel at igrin.co.nz (noel at igrin.co.nz)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 15:12:24 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] thin net client frontend
Message-ID: <4034.60.234.137.12.1270437144.squirrel@webmail.igrin.co.nz>

What is the general consensus for using a thin net client for a frontend?
I am curious if something like a Compaq T5520 would be OK for use with a
DVB-S backend.  I am only interested in SD, so what would be the
recomendations?  Regards Noel





From steve at greengecko.co.nz  Mon Apr  5 02:11:48 2010
From: steve at greengecko.co.nz (Steve Holdoway)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:11:48 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BB935A6.2040402@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051101.08984.john@enuffsaid.co.nz>
	<4BB935A6.2040402@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <1270429908.5659.4.camel@steve-laptop>

I've had problems with the 8168 ethernet driver with 8169 hardware on
debian lenny. Does 
(sudo) ifconfig -a 
show loads of errors? If so, there are articles on how to install the
8169 driver from source/blacklist the 8168.

hth,

Steve 
On Mon, 2010-04-05 at 12:58 +1200, Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> Thanks everybody for such helpful and quick responses!
> 
> ===
> John Russell wrote:
> > Well I'm not a Ubuntu user, but I have in the past has issues with desktop 
> > indexing/search tools like Beagle and Strigi doing similar things on Suse and 
> > Mandriva.  Anything like that running?  
> 
> I don't think anything like that should be on a Mythbuntu system. It 
> certainly isn't appearing in top or iotop.
> 
> > Have you checked for anything 
> > interesting with dmesg or in /var/log/messages?
> 
> There isn't much of interest. In the syslog, I found a bunch of messages 
> saying (see around line 3000):
> "#
> Apr  5 08:07:56 mythbuntu-server init: mythtv-backend main process 
> (1414) terminated with status 254
> #
> Apr  5 08:07:56 mythbuntu-server init: mythtv-backend main process 
> ended, respawning"
> 
> What does this status mean? I'm wondering if this problem is just 
> coincidentally similar to my previous problem and this one is just 
> because I haven't yet set up the database.
> 
> Syslog:
> http://pastebin.com/QhH3eKNT
> 
> Dmesg:
> http://pastebin.com/fd0m07Qq
> 
> Dmesg.0:
> http://pastebin.com/eguWgCjT
> 
> /var/log/messages:
> http://pastebin.com/GxhyEph2
> 
> ===
> Stuart Whelan wrote:
>  > Can you describe your storage setup..
> 
>  > - Raid?
> Nope.
>  > - Number and types of Hard Drive interface (Sata/IDE/etc)?
> Single Western Digital 1TB Green Power SATA drive.
>  > - Any networked drives?
> Nope.
>  > - S.M.A.R.T. enabled on the Motherboard?
> I think so, though I understood that SMART on the MoBo was only for the 
> BIOS boot?
>  > - What does /var/log/dmesg say about storage when it gets detected?
> See link above.
>  > - Any extra messages in dmesg after a long pause?
> Not that I can see. Link above.
> 
> ===
> James Booth wrote:
>  > I had problems that were kind of simlar to what you describe after I
>  > went to 9.10/0.22 and moved to DVB-T. Turned out to be mythcommflag
>  > when processing HD files. I could never get it to work without
>  > bringing everything down so have turned mythcommflag off (sadly).
> Thanks for the suggestion. I would be surprised if this was the problem, 
> as I do not have any HD recordings yet. I am going to set up HD on this 
> machine, but at the moment I have only installed Mythbuntu (choosing 
> some MythTV-related options in the setup, but not installing anything 
> else) and have not set up any of the MythTV database, cards etc. etc.
> ===
> 
> I have since stopped mythtv-backend and mysql processes and played the 
> same video through. It worked without stalling. I then restarted mysql 
> and the video played through (well, it hasn't finished yet, but no 
> problems so far), so it does seem to be mythtv-backend.
> 
> I have tried Googling the error above, but can't find a clear answer on 
> what it means.
> 
> Thanks again -- it makes such a difference to have your help.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Aaron
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/




From criggie at criggie.dyndns.org  Mon Apr  5 06:15:03 2010
From: criggie at criggie.dyndns.org (criggie at criggie.dyndns.org)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:15:03 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] thin net client frontend
In-Reply-To: <4034.60.234.137.12.1270437144.squirrel@webmail.igrin.co.nz>
References: <4034.60.234.137.12.1270437144.squirrel@webmail.igrin.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4BB971D7.6000101@criggie.dyndns.org>

noel at igrin.co.nz wrote:
> What is the general consensus for using a thin net client for a frontend?
> I am curious if something like a Compaq T5520 would be OK for use with a
> DVB-S backend.  I am only interested in SD, so what would be the
> recomendations?  Regards Noel

Basically, its not going to work.

The only way you could do that is to have some kind of thin client that 
can boot a generic x86 OS from a USB drive or PXE boot.

Many of the thin clients I've seen have some kind of embedded system in 
flash or rom, and then run RDP or xdm or similar.  They're not going to 
do it for you.

One success comes with the Firebox firewalls.  They're simple cyrix 
based boxes with no PS2 or USB, but they do have a couple PCI slots so 
you can add a PCI video card and a PCI USB card.   Its still a stinky 
old 5x86 though, so performance is low.


Other useful links
http://parker1.co.uk/epia_minimyth.php	epia netboot with minimyth



-- 
Criggie

http://criggie.dyndns.org/


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Mon Apr  5 06:46:01 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 17:46:01 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Weird epgsnoop/mythfilldatabase problem
In-Reply-To: <cc203943fda4b60240651e53a1d77c17.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
References: <22be7fc23a8a3044b8cfc89d3c6f03e3.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
	<cc203943fda4b60240651e53a1d77c17.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <n2v24b589d91004042246v597493abl218f42d79e0ba422@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Robin Gilks <g8ecj at gilks.org> wrote:

> After a *very* careful look with a hex editor I found that the <desc> line
> had two spaces with the top bit set (i.e. 0xa0 rather than 0x20) which was
> causing the problems!!
>

I think I've seen that in the raw DVB EIT data.

Cheers,
Steve
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From james at booths.net.nz  Mon Apr  5 06:58:56 2010
From: james at booths.net.nz (James Booth)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 17:58:56 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] thin net client frontend
In-Reply-To: <4BB971D7.6000101@criggie.dyndns.org>
References: <4034.60.234.137.12.1270437144.squirrel@webmail.igrin.co.nz>
	<4BB971D7.6000101@criggie.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <201004051758.57046.james@booths.net.nz>

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:15:03 criggie at criggie.dyndns.org wrote:
> noel at igrin.co.nz wrote:
> > What is the general consensus for using a thin net client for a frontend?
> > I am curious if something like a Compaq T5520 would be OK for use with a
> > DVB-S backend.  I am only interested in SD, so what would be the
> > recomendations?  Regards Noel
> 
> Basically, its not going to work.
> 
> The only way you could do that is to have some kind of thin client that 
> can boot a generic x86 OS from a USB drive or PXE boot.
> 
> Many of the thin clients I've seen have some kind of embedded system in 
> flash or rom, and then run RDP or xdm or similar.  They're not going to 
> do it for you.
> 
> One success comes with the Firebox firewalls.  They're simple cyrix 
> based boxes with no PS2 or USB, but they do have a couple PCI slots so 
> you can add a PCI video card and a PCI USB card.   Its still a stinky 
> old 5x86 though, so performance is low.
> 
> 
> Other useful links
> http://parker1.co.uk/epia_minimyth.php	epia netboot with minimyth
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Criggie
> 
> http://criggie.dyndns.org/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
> 
 I agree - been there, tried that, forget it.

James.


From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Mon Apr  5 07:40:32 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 18:40:32 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] HP t5735 Thin Client HD Frontend Option with t5735 PCI
	EXP MOD
Message-ID: <C3099B7E4BCA4F81B06FEDA5F6D8B635@dp2000xp>

Having wrote this up its not as good as my first impression however I might as well send it in if anyones interested, (I wrote it up 
awhile ago and just saved it in a draft) seems there might be some interest, even if its in the negative.  Maybe someone can advance 
this?

The advantage I saw in this is that it can have various video cards added, while it may be silent.

The optimal combination would probably be a fanless 9400 PCI card however its not clear if the main box is fanless.  Anyone?
(Orientation is important suggesting it may be fanless) Whether it would cope with the heat output of a PCI 9400GT is not clear, nor
whether there is enough rail power available....  Actually its power supply is 50W, which is the full 9400GT requirement....so there
you have it, not such a good idea!  (No power left for anything else)  I suppose someone really keen could wire in an external more 
powerful PS, but starting to get a bit OTT at that point.

All PCI 9500's seem to be fanned.  I've only found 8400 PCI-E x1 cards (http://www.sparkle.com.tw/product.asp?id=79) which could
also plug in?

Audio may well be limited to analogue stereo.

Also not sure if can add enuff HDD memory (I think its 1G onboard? more? A mythbuntu FE uses about 3.4G)  for an image but served 
images might be OK?


HP HP t5735 Thin Client

The AMD Sempron processor and high-end graphics delivers desktop-like performance in a slimmer design. This powerful Debian
Linux-based client supports a variety of open-source applications, creating a new paradigm in thin client computing.

Processor:  AMD Sempron 2100+ 1 GHz
Display & Graphics Controller:  ATI Radeon X1250 32 MB DDR2 SDRAM Shared Integrated



HP t5730 t5735 PCI EXP MOD

This high-quality PCI Expansion Module with PCI and PCI Express x1, one parallel and a second serial port, provides a range of
connectivity, storage and security options so you can get the most out of your investment.

This high-quality PCI Expansion Module with PCI and PCI Express x1, one parallel and a second serial port, provides a range of
connectivity, storage and security options so you can get the most out of your investment.



From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Mon Apr  5 07:53:47 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 18:53:47 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051101.08984.john@enuffsaid.co.nz>
	<4BB935A6.2040402@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<hbfir5thg14m660pf15j135k4g4fanjnur@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <52F25D8A3D634BAEABFBA2040D08E292@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Worthington" <stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD


> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 12:58:14 +1200, you wrote:
> 
> That happens almost always when I shut down Mythbuntu 9.10.  It seems
> to me that there is a bug in mythbackend - it does not respond
> correctly to the signal to shut down and keeps restarting, until it
> eventually gets killed by the shutdown process.  

I've found shutdown and boot issues are easily avoided using suspend, with the bonus of much faster restarts. HTH.


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Mon Apr  5 08:40:41 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 19:40:41 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] How to use tv_grab_nz-py with DVB-T
Message-ID: <4BB993F9.8010607@whitehouse.org.nz>

Hello,

I'm sure that the answer to this question must be out there already, but 
I can't seem to find it.

I am making progress slowly and now have live TV One playing with my 
DVB-T card and VDPAU.  I don't have any EPG data for that channel, 
though.  I have installed the tv_grab_nz-py script and let it add 20 
channels.  I also scanned the DVB-T card to add all the Freeview 
channels that way. I would like to use the guide data from the internet, 
with the channel setup from the DVB-T card channel.

I tried making the "Callsign" the same, but that didn't seem to work. I 
deleted the tv_grab version of TV One and added the XMLTV ID from the 
tv_grab version into the DVB-T version -- that made the TV One work, but 
I don't have any guide data.

Can anybody point me to solution?

Thanks again!

Aaron


From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Mon Apr  5 09:20:30 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 20:20:30 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] How to use tv_grab_nz-py with DVB-T
References: <4BB993F9.8010607@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <E6FEC19CEEA3433B843A939DE02A1BF2@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Whitehouse" <lists at whitehouse.org.nz>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:40 PM
Subject: [mythtvnz] How to use tv_grab_nz-py with DVB-T


> Hello,
>
> I'm sure that the answer to this question must be out there already, but
> I can't seem to find it.
>
> I am making progress slowly and now have live TV One playing with my
> DVB-T card and VDPAU.  I don't have any EPG data for that channel,
> though.  I have installed the tv_grab_nz-py script and let it add 20
> channels.  I also scanned the DVB-T card to add all the Freeview
> channels that way. I would like to use the guide data from the internet,
> with the channel setup from the DVB-T card channel.
>
> I tried making the "Callsign" the same, but that didn't seem to work. I
> deleted the tv_grab version of TV One and added the XMLTV ID from the
> tv_grab version into the DVB-T version -- that made the TV One work, but
> I don't have any guide data.
>
> Can anybody point me to solution?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Aaron

Try working your way through the thread 
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/424669?search_string=tv_grab_nz-py;#424669 



From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Mon Apr  5 10:00:49 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:00:49 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] How to use tv_grab_nz-py with DVB-T
In-Reply-To: <E6FEC19CEEA3433B843A939DE02A1BF2@dp2000xp>
References: <4BB993F9.8010607@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<E6FEC19CEEA3433B843A939DE02A1BF2@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <4BB9A6C1.6050002@whitehouse.org.nz>

Tortise wrote:

> Try working your way through the thread 
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/424669?search_string=tv_grab_nz-py;#424669 

Thanks a lot.

It turns out that the "Configure" button didn't actually work. When I 
copied over the Main.xmltv file to the right place, my previous method 
(of copying and pasting xmltvids) worked.

Thanks,

Aaron


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Mon Apr  5 10:06:26 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:06:26 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
Message-ID: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>

Sorry for a weekend of posts from me, but I'm sure that someone will 
have a quick answer for this.

I have managed to set up 4 virtual tuners on each of my dual physical 
tuners. I want it so that, when there are two adjacent recordings, it 
will use two different tuners, so that it will keep the 5 mins before 
and 10 mins after with the recording.

I'm pretty sure that there is a setting somewhere for this, but I just 
can't see it anywhere. I find MythTV's setup screens really difficult to 
navigate.

Thanks in advance and I hope everybody had a great Easter.

Regards,

Aaron



From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Mon Apr  5 10:12:25 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:12:25 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <E1DE59D7018C4D9C853A2D710FECFC2E@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Whitehouse" <lists at whitehouse.org.nz>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:06 PM
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings


> Sorry for a weekend of posts from me, but I'm sure that someone will
> have a quick answer for this.
>
> I have managed to set up 4 virtual tuners on each of my dual physical
> tuners. I want it so that, when there are two adjacent recordings, it
> will use two different tuners, so that it will keep the 5 mins before
> and 10 mins after with the recording.
>
> I'm pretty sure that there is a setting somewhere for this, but I just
> can't see it anywhere. I find MythTV's setup screens really difficult to
> navigate.
>

If the recordings are on the same Mux only one real tuner should be necessary regardless as its all pulled off the same mux. (etc) 
Then its just a matter of defining your begin / end differences by default or on demand in mythweb. 



From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Mon Apr  5 10:14:34 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:14:34 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <4BB9A9FA.7020700@whitehouse.org.nz>

Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> I have managed to set up 4 virtual tuners on each of my dual physical 
> tuners. I want it so that, when there are two adjacent recordings, it 
> will use two different tuners, so that it will keep the 5 mins before 
> and 10 mins after with the recording.

To clarify, I've already set the "Avoid back to back recordings from 
different channels" option -- I would like it to do the same for 
recordings from the same channel, so that it uses multirec and I don't 
have to find the next program to get the last few mins of a show that 
goes over time.

Regards,

Aaron


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Mon Apr  5 10:15:37 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 21:15:37 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:06 PM, Aaron Whitehouse <lists at whitehouse.org.nz>wrote:

> Sorry for a weekend of posts from me, but I'm sure that someone will
> have a quick answer for this.
>
> I have managed to set up 4 virtual tuners on each of my dual physical
> tuners. I want it so that, when there are two adjacent recordings, it
> will use two different tuners, so that it will keep the 5 mins before
> and 10 mins after with the recording.
>
> I'm pretty sure that there is a setting somewhere for this, but I just
> can't see it anywhere. I find MythTV's setup screens really difficult to
> navigate.
>

There is no global option for what you want (which is refered to as "hard
padding") - you just need to set the padding in the recording schedules.

There is an option in the settings for "Time to record before/after a show"
in Setup->TV Settings->General->General (Advanced) (the 4th screen). This is
for "soft padding" which means that Myth will only record the padding when
there are no adjacent shows and adjacent shows are not pushed to other
tuners. Sounds like you might have tried this before and I don't think it's
what you want.

Cheers,
Steve
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From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Mon Apr  5 11:36:08 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:36:08 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 21:15:37 +1200, you wrote:

>On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 9:06 PM, Aaron Whitehouse <lists at whitehouse.org.nz>wrote:
>
>> Sorry for a weekend of posts from me, but I'm sure that someone will
>> have a quick answer for this.
>>
>> I have managed to set up 4 virtual tuners on each of my dual physical
>> tuners. I want it so that, when there are two adjacent recordings, it
>> will use two different tuners, so that it will keep the 5 mins before
>> and 10 mins after with the recording.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure that there is a setting somewhere for this, but I just
>> can't see it anywhere. I find MythTV's setup screens really difficult to
>> navigate.
>>
>
>There is no global option for what you want (which is refered to as "hard
>padding") - you just need to set the padding in the recording schedules.
>
>There is an option in the settings for "Time to record before/after a show"
>in Setup->TV Settings->General->General (Advanced) (the 4th screen). This is
>for "soft padding" which means that Myth will only record the padding when
>there are no adjacent shows and adjacent shows are not pushed to other
>tuners. Sounds like you might have tried this before and I don't think it's
>what you want.
>
>Cheers,
>Steve

When you set up a recording rule, under "Schedule Options" you will
find the settings for "Start recording x minutes early" and "End
recording x minutes late".  These options have default values that you
can set up somewhere - but I can never remember exactly where when I
want to find them.  These options are hard padding - the scheduler
will obey them no matter what.  If you also have soft padding
specified, it will be added to the hard padding times except when
there is a back-to-back or otherwise conflicting recording.

Warning: If you use hard padding, during the overlap times, you will
be recording that channel twice at the same time.  This means you need
to ensure that you do not outstrip your hard disk's capability to
write that many files at the same time.  Eg, if you are recording 4
channels at the same time, and they all have back to back programs
with hard padding, then you will be writing 8 programs to disk at once
suddenly during the overlap.  That would probably be a bit much for
even a nice fast modern SATA drive.  I do have 4 recordings going at
once probably twice a week or so, but I have never had 4 all with
back-to-back recordings, so I can not say for sure that a single disk
would not cope.

BTW 5 minutes before and 10 minutes after is overkill.  I use 0
minutes of hard padding before and 3 minutes after, with 60 seconds of
soft padding before and 60 seconds after.  That works except for:

1) TV2 may need up to 2 minutes hard padding before sometimes,
especially early in the evening.
2) Late in the evening, you may need up to 10 minutes of hard padding
after.  This is almost always true for TV3 who always have the sport
greatly overrun their late news scheduled end time.  They really need
to schedule the late news as being 5 minutes longer than they do now.
3) Sky (if you are recording that) almost never needs any hard padding
as they are usually on time.  Which is good because setting any hard
padding makes it impossible to record programs whose times are back to
back (due to there being only one Sky tuner).

My setup is complicated by Sky needing rather different settings from
the DVB-T broadcasters.  Without Sky, I would just use no soft padding
and defaults of hard padding of 1 minute before and 4 minutes after,
with manual adjustments for the exceptions.

You may be tempted just to go with your suggested 5 minutes before and
10 minutes after.  However, that adds 25% to the storage required for
an hour program (and 50% for a half hour one) - and that will really
bite you eventually.  A TV3 HD 1 hour program takes over 5 Gibytes, so
even terabyte drives fill rapidly.


From noel at igrin.co.nz  Mon Apr  5 22:00:43 2010
From: noel at igrin.co.nz (Noel & Di)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 09:00:43 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] thin net client frontend
In-Reply-To: <4BB971D7.6000101@criggie.dyndns.org>
References: <4034.60.234.137.12.1270437144.squirrel@webmail.igrin.co.nz>
	<4BB971D7.6000101@criggie.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <4BBA4F7B.80102@igrin.co.nz>


> The only way you could do that is to have some kind of thin client that 
> can boot a generic x86 OS from a USB drive or PXE boot.
>   
I see the compaq t20 can  boot i86 OSs such as 
http://mowson.org/karl/evo_t20/ 

TThe Compaq T30 has a PCI slot (vid card here?) and there is an 
interesting OT description of an EV on this site 
http://www.amphibike.org/index.cgi?page=pages/6_misc/hacking_evo

What were the issues others encountered? 
Noel.



From noel at igrin.co.nz  Mon Apr  5 22:12:44 2010
From: noel at igrin.co.nz (Noel & Di)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 09:12:44 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>	<r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4BBA524C.10803@igrin.co.nz>

>
> I do have 4 recordings going at
> once probably twice a week or so, but I have never had 4 all with
> back-to-back recordings, so I can not say for sure that a single disk
> would not cope.
I have 2x2 programs record back to back every weeknight, and only have 
issues if we watch a fifth previously recorded program. 
I have set my  recording rule to start & finish 5 mins early, & this is 
the default for any new recordings. 
The only issue I need to be careful of is to make sure SBS recordings 
have a lower priority than any freeview channels (SBS is vertical 
polarization so effectively eliminates  further use of horizontal 
multiplexes for the duration of the recording on that tuner), that & the 
pesky AU daylight saving times!
Noel
 


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Mon Apr  5 22:35:57 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 09:35:57 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] HP t5735 Thin Client HD Frontend Option with t5735
	PCI EXP MOD
In-Reply-To: <C3099B7E4BCA4F81B06FEDA5F6D8B635@dp2000xp>
References: <C3099B7E4BCA4F81B06FEDA5F6D8B635@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <i2t52bd4a781004051435j2dbb897el5948f860773789c9@mail.gmail.com>

I am not sure why anyone would contemplate a US$500 HP thin client
when a Revo is US$199 and fanless ION motherboards have similar
economics.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Having wrote this up its not as good as my first impression however I might as well send it in if anyones interested, (I wrote it up
> awhile ago and just saved it in a draft) seems there might be some interest, even if its in the negative. ?Maybe someone can advance
> this?
>
> The advantage I saw in this is that it can have various video cards added, while it may be silent.
>
> The optimal combination would probably be a fanless 9400 PCI card however its not clear if the main box is fanless. ?Anyone?
> (Orientation is important suggesting it may be fanless) Whether it would cope with the heat output of a PCI 9400GT is not clear, nor
> whether there is enough rail power available.... ?Actually its power supply is 50W, which is the full 9400GT requirement....so there
> you have it, not such a good idea! ?(No power left for anything else) ?I suppose someone really keen could wire in an external more
> powerful PS, but starting to get a bit OTT at that point.
>
> All PCI 9500's seem to be fanned. ?I've only found 8400 PCI-E x1 cards (http://www.sparkle.com.tw/product.asp?id=79) which could
> also plug in?
>
> Audio may well be limited to analogue stereo.
>
> Also not sure if can add enuff HDD memory (I think its 1G onboard? more? A mythbuntu FE uses about 3.4G) ?for an image but served
> images might be OK?
>
>
> HP HP t5735 Thin Client
>
> The AMD Sempron processor and high-end graphics delivers desktop-like performance in a slimmer design. This powerful Debian
> Linux-based client supports a variety of open-source applications, creating a new paradigm in thin client computing.
>
> Processor: ?AMD Sempron 2100+ 1 GHz
> Display & Graphics Controller: ?ATI Radeon X1250 32 MB DDR2 SDRAM Shared Integrated
>
>
>
> HP t5730 t5735 PCI EXP MOD
>
> This high-quality PCI Expansion Module with PCI and PCI Express x1, one parallel and a second serial port, provides a range of
> connectivity, storage and security options so you can get the most out of your investment.
>
> This high-quality PCI Expansion Module with PCI and PCI Express x1, one parallel and a second serial port, provides a range of
> connectivity, storage and security options so you can get the most out of your investment.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>


From james at booths.net.nz  Mon Apr  5 22:36:43 2010
From: james at booths.net.nz (James Booth)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 09:36:43 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] thin net client frontend
In-Reply-To: <4BBA4F7B.80102@igrin.co.nz>
References: <4034.60.234.137.12.1270437144.squirrel@webmail.igrin.co.nz>	<4BB971D7.6000101@criggie.dyndns.org>
	<4BBA4F7B.80102@igrin.co.nz>
Message-ID: <003301cad508$170468a0$450d39e0$@net.nz>

I have a T20 sitting here next to me, which I tried out. When it came down
to trying to sort out a video card, get the OS right and working, dealing
with performance issues, etc, it just was not a viable option, and really
not that cheap either, so I canned the project.

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtvnz-bounces at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
[mailto:mythtvnz-bounces at lists.linuxnut.co.nz] On Behalf Of Noel & Di
Sent: Tuesday, 6 April 2010 9:01 a.m.
To: MythTV in NZ
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] thin net client frontend


> The only way you could do that is to have some kind of thin client that 
> can boot a generic x86 OS from a USB drive or PXE boot.
>   
I see the compaq t20 can  boot i86 OSs such as 
http://mowson.org/karl/evo_t20/ 

TThe Compaq T30 has a PCI slot (vid card here?) and there is an 
interesting OT description of an EV on this site 
http://www.amphibike.org/index.cgi?page=pages/6_misc/hacking_evo

What were the issues others encountered? 
Noel.


_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/



From david at thistledown.co.nz  Mon Apr  5 23:13:46 2010
From: david at thistledown.co.nz (David Lowe)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 10:13:46 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] thin net client frontend
In-Reply-To: <4BB971D7.6000101@criggie.dyndns.org>
References: <4034.60.234.137.12.1270437144.squirrel@webmail.igrin.co.nz>
	<4BB971D7.6000101@criggie.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <j2t5bc0decc1004051513id13e1a29v5e43183ec6961914@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:15 PM, <criggie at criggie.dyndns.org> wrote:

> noel at igrin.co.nz wrote:
> > What is the general consensus for using a thin net client for a frontend?
> > I am curious if something like a Compaq T5520 would be OK for use with a
> > DVB-S backend.  I am only interested in SD, so what would be the
> > recomendations?  Regards Noel
>
> I know it's not quite what you are looking for, but the Hauppauge MediaMVP
works really well as a SD front end. It's inexpensive and not hard to get
going. It's not a genuine front end and lacks some Myth functions, but as a
player I find it great. And I've just noticed someone is now working on a
version for the Iphone as well! See http://www.mvpmc.org/

- David
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From stevehodge at gmail.com  Tue Apr  6 00:22:43 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 11:22:43 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <j2m24b589d91004051622x770ddcaz246d1d711a084003@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Stephen Worthington <
stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:

> When you set up a recording rule, under "Schedule Options" you will
> find the settings for "Start recording x minutes early" and "End
> recording x minutes late".  These options have default values that you
> can set up somewhere - but I can never remember exactly where when I
> want to find them.


Setup->TV Settings->Recording Priorities->Set Recording Priorities.

Cheers,
Steve
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From g8ecj at gilks.org  Tue Apr  6 01:24:07 2010
From: g8ecj at gilks.org (Robin Gilks)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:24:07 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] How to clean up dvbsnoop output?
Message-ID: <71c403398e82ca2452086eecf062504c.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>

I'm still getting characters with the MSB set from dvbsnoop which causes
mfdb via tv_grab_nz-py to fail completely.

I'm not sure if the correct fix would be in dvbsnoop, epgsnoop or
tv_grab_nz-py but I'm open to suggestions on exactly how to implement such
a fix...

There is still an issue with default character set assumptions when
merging the web based freeview with homebrew sky data as well since the
former doesn't declare a set but epgsnoop puts one it. It all works still,
it would just be nice to remove another warning!

Cheers

-- 
Robin Gilks




From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Tue Apr  6 01:47:39 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:47:39 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] How to clean up dvbsnoop output?
In-Reply-To: <71c403398e82ca2452086eecf062504c.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
References: <71c403398e82ca2452086eecf062504c.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <bm0lr5hf2jtlql3eboe9p5tgvpc5m8ikur@4ax.com>

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:24:07 +1200, you wrote:

>I'm still getting characters with the MSB set from dvbsnoop which causes
>mfdb via tv_grab_nz-py to fail completely.
>
>I'm not sure if the correct fix would be in dvbsnoop, epgsnoop or
>tv_grab_nz-py but I'm open to suggestions on exactly how to implement such
>a fix...
>
>There is still an issue with default character set assumptions when
>merging the web based freeview with homebrew sky data as well since the
>former doesn't declare a set but epgsnoop puts one it. It all works still,
>it would just be nice to remove another warning!
>
>Cheers

I would think you could use the tr command to filter the file and
change all the bad characters to spaces or delete them, if you know
what the bad character values are.


From g8ecj at gilks.org  Tue Apr  6 02:16:21 2010
From: g8ecj at gilks.org (Robin Gilks)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 13:16:21 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] How to clean up dvbsnoop output?
In-Reply-To: <bm0lr5hf2jtlql3eboe9p5tgvpc5m8ikur@4ax.com>
References: <71c403398e82ca2452086eecf062504c.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
	<bm0lr5hf2jtlql3eboe9p5tgvpc5m8ikur@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <e8b94831d404c9201bd978a251de3d5b.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>


> On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:24:07 +1200, you wrote:
>
>>I'm still getting characters with the MSB set from dvbsnoop which causes
>>mfdb via tv_grab_nz-py to fail completely.
>>
>>I'm not sure if the correct fix would be in dvbsnoop, epgsnoop or
>>tv_grab_nz-py but I'm open to suggestions on exactly how to implement
>> such
>>a fix...
>>
>>There is still an issue with default character set assumptions when
>>merging the web based freeview with homebrew sky data as well since the
>>former doesn't declare a set but epgsnoop puts one it. It all works
>> still,
>>it would just be nice to remove another warning!
>>
>>Cheers
>
> I would think you could use the tr command to filter the file and
> change all the bad characters to spaces or delete them, if you know
> what the bad character values are.

Ah - now that is someone who is not blinded by all the trees and can see
the wood!! I was thinking more along the lines of some extra python magic
but the simple approach appeals a lot!!

Cheers


-- 
Robin Gilks




From hads at nice.net.nz  Tue Apr  6 11:46:07 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 22:46:07 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Weird epgsnoop/mythfilldatabase problem
In-Reply-To: <n2v24b589d91004042246v597493abl218f42d79e0ba422@mail.gmail.com>
References: <22be7fc23a8a3044b8cfc89d3c6f03e3.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
	<cc203943fda4b60240651e53a1d77c17.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
	<n2v24b589d91004042246v597493abl218f42d79e0ba422@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100406224607.646bf3ca@sodium>

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 17:46:01 +1200
Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think I've seen that in the raw DVB EIT data.

Yeah there's some weird stuff in there.

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's VoIP and Open Source Supplier


From hads at nice.net.nz  Tue Apr  6 11:47:50 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 22:47:50 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz]
 =?utf-8?q?Epgsnoop_=E2=80=93_still_can_not_get_it_to_w?=
 =?utf-8?q?ork?=
In-Reply-To: <ddd8e1d71003291937qf82e6bpd618d9dac0c3ebc1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f4378e021003291313h5a984767x892533749577ee4e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BB1228A.3000702@clearfield.com>
	<ddd8e1d71003291937qf82e6bpd618d9dac0c3ebc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100406224750.73852afc@sodium>

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:37:54 +1300
Duncan Kennington <duncan.kennington at gmail.com> wrote:

> As a suggestion following the model in this script:
> http://www.harelmalka.com/androvideo perhaps a --get-dependencies
> option in epgsnoop might make it easier for people to pick this
> script up and run with it?

Quite a neat idea, I'll put it on my list.

For the OP and everyone else; don't use the IMDB processor.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's VoIP and Open Source Supplier


From drtimlockyer at gmail.com  Wed Apr  7 04:19:02 2010
From: drtimlockyer at gmail.com (tim Lockyer)
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 15:19:02 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] epgsnoop working problem solved
Message-ID: <j2gf4378e021004062019l2214cbe2jcaf68ebdcebcac90@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the sugestions the answer was so simple.



1.      Edit the Channels.conf.  This is the one that you copy to with the
following command:



cp channels.conf.sky ~/.epgsnoop/channels.conf



So that it looks like the following:



[CategoryDb]

database: ~/.epgsnoop/epgsnoop.sqlite



#[Imdb]

#access_system: sql

#database_uri: mysql://mythtv:mythtv at localhost/imdb



[XMLTV]

show_icons: true

icon_url_base: http://nzepg.org/icons/



I was editing the wrong conf file



2. I use an old computer as a test machine so that it does not upset my main
machine. On that machine it would just hang, or would produce a short
listings.xml file with strange characters. Once I moved to a faster computer
it immediately worked correctly.
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From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Wed Apr  7 22:56:32 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (lists at whitehouse.org.nz)
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:56:32 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9452160dba2383185ece86e06fede95f@localhost>

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:36:08 +1200, Stephen Worthington
<stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:

>>There is no global option for what you want (which is refered to as "hard
>>padding") - you just need to set the padding in the recording schedules.
>>
>>There is an option in the settings for "Time to record before/after a
>>show"
>>in Setup->TV Settings->General->General (Advanced) (the 4th screen). This
>>is
>>for "soft padding" which means that Myth will only record the padding
when
>>there are no adjacent shows and adjacent shows are not pushed to other
>>tuners. Sounds like you might have tried this before and I don't think
>>it's what you want.

Thanks everyone for your answers.  

That seems really stupid to me. Quite aside from not being intuitive (can
you imagine MySky having "hard" and "soft" padding?), I struggle to see the
benefit.  I don't actually want it to throw a conflict when I've run out of
tuners and have scheduled "hard padding" (say adjacent recordings on three
multiplexes), I just want it to use different tuners when they are
otherwise sitting idle so that I actually get my "soft padding" in the
recording.  Obviously the best solution would be if someone managed to make
it so that overlap padding (from two adjacent recordings on the same
channel on the same tuner) was recorded once but linked to both recordings
(which would solve the disk-use issue mentioned), or encoded once and
written to disk twice ? it's even more important in analogue setups. If
anybody is keen to work on it, I would be keen to start a donation drive
and throw a little cash at the problem.

If the "soft padding" worked properly (ranking below an actual program but
utilising an otherwise-idle card), I wouldn't have thought MythTV would
need the default hard-padding rules (as the only time you would need them
would be for specific shows that you knew would likely end late). Setting
padding in two places is pretty odd, especially when it isn't clear what
difference it makes.

In addition, the sensible way to deal with it would seem to be through the
priority system that is already in there. A checkbox similar to the "try to
use a different tuner for adjacent recordings on different channels" saying
"try to use a different tuner for adjacent recordings on the same channel"
would be a much-preferred solution for people with multi-rec up and
running. Strangely, it seems that the upshot of all of this is that I can
get MythTV to do exactly what I want for adjacent recordings on different
channels, but cannot for adjacent recordings on the same channel.


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Thu Apr  8 02:24:18 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 13:24:18 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <9452160dba2383185ece86e06fede95f@localhost>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
	<9452160dba2383185ece86e06fede95f@localhost>
Message-ID: <i2i24b589d91004071824w4439c86azf728dd4c1d4336fb@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:56 AM, <lists at whitehouse.org.nz> wrote:

> That seems really stupid to me. Quite aside from not being intuitive (can
> you imagine MySky having "hard" and "soft" padding?), I struggle to see the
> benefit.  I don't actually want it to throw a conflict when I've run out of
> tuners and have scheduled "hard padding" (say adjacent recordings on three
> multiplexes),


A lot of people do. Particularly in the US where most programs seem to be
repeated a lot - most people apparently would rather have the scheduler
record another showing than lose the padding (and therefore the start or end
of the show, or at least have to deal with remembering that part of the show
is attached to another program somewhere).

Originally hard padding was the only kind (and I expect it's the only kind
available on MySky). When people complained that they were missing shows
they were advised to manually adjust the padding for those particular
recordings (this is what I still do in the very rare case of a conflict) or
buy another tuner. The scheduler is complex and adding some sort of
intelligent padding was seen as difficult, risky, unwarranted and likely to
result in more user issues when it did something the user wasn't expecting.
I'm not convinced that position was wrong. Soft padding was eventually added
as a half-way measure that is useful to some people and not too invasive
since it doesn't touch the scheduler.

I just want it to use different tuners when they are
> otherwise sitting idle so that I actually get my "soft padding" in the
> recording.


The best solution for you is probably to use hard padding and manually
resolve the conflicts by removing the padding. You've got 8 virtual tuners
so I can't see you having many conflicts.


> Obviously the best solution would be if someone managed to make
> it so that overlap padding (from two adjacent recordings on the same
> channel on the same tuner) was recorded once but linked to both recordings
> (which would solve the disk-use issue mentioned), or encoded once and
> written to disk twice ? it's even more important in analogue setups. If
> anybody is keen to work on it, I would be keen to start a donation drive
> and throw a little cash at the problem.
>

It's been discussed before. The problem is not the splitting of the signal
into two recordings, the problem is getting the scheduler to understand. One
solution would be to implement it in the same way as multirec - multiple
virtual tuners that can be used together in certain situations. I suppose it
could also be implemented so that it only applies to soft padding and
therefore doesn't mess with the scheduler. But I think you'll struggle to
find a developer interested enough to tackle this.


> If the "soft padding" worked properly (ranking below an actual program but
> utilising an otherwise-idle card), I wouldn't have thought MythTV would
> need the default hard-padding rules (as the only time you would need them
> would be for specific shows that you knew would likely end late).


It's not that simple. There are lots of corner cases where different people
will want different behaviour (consider the case where someone's tuners
aren't the same quality-wise). This has been discussed to death in the past
- check out the main list archives.


> Setting
> padding in two places is pretty odd, especially when it isn't clear what
> difference it makes.
>

The setup descriptions are pretty clear. It would be better if the options
were all in one place but I'm not sure that's practical given that one
option is global and the other is not.


> In addition, the sensible way to deal with it would seem to be through the
> priority system that is already in there. A checkbox similar to the "try to
> use a different tuner for adjacent recordings on different channels" saying
> "try to use a different tuner for adjacent recordings on the same channel"
> would be a much-preferred solution for people with multi-rec up and
> running. Strangely, it seems that the upshot of all of this is that I can
> get MythTV to do exactly what I want for adjacent recordings on different
> channels, but cannot for adjacent recordings on the same channel.
>

It's worth suggesting. It's probably the most practical way of solving your
particular need.


> From a practical point of view, it sounds as though I will need to remove
> the soft-padding, change the default rules for new recordings and then go
> through and add hard-padding to each of my existing recordings. I accept
> that it will probably work, but it seems a bit of a dirty hack.
>

Actually you used the dirty hack in the first place by using soft padding.
What you now need to do is to set Myth up the way the developers intended it
to be used in the first place. Incidentally your experience is pretty much
why the developers resisted soft padding in the first place.

Cheers,
Steve
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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Thu Apr  8 06:11:17 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 17:11:17 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <i2i24b589d91004071824w4439c86azf728dd4c1d4336fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
	<9452160dba2383185ece86e06fede95f@localhost>
	<i2i24b589d91004071824w4439c86azf728dd4c1d4336fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <l2k52bd4a781004072211vb7ae0110hfa735d03a413ec4e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:56 AM, <lists at whitehouse.org.nz> wrote:
>>
>> That seems really stupid to me. Quite aside from not being intuitive (can
>> you imagine MySky having "hard" and "soft" padding?), I struggle to see
>> the
>> benefit. ?I don't actually want it to throw a conflict when I've run out
>> of
>> tuners and have scheduled "hard padding" (say adjacent recordings on three
>> multiplexes),
>
> A lot of people do. Particularly in the US where most programs seem to be
> repeated a lot - most people apparently would rather have the scheduler
> record another showing than lose the padding (and therefore the start or end
> of the show, or at least have to deal with remembering that part of the show
> is attached to another program somewhere).
>
> Originally hard padding was the only kind (and I expect it's the only kind
> available on MySky). When people complained that they were missing shows
> they were advised to manually adjust the padding for those particular
> recordings (this is what I still do in the very rare case of a conflict) or
> buy another tuner. The scheduler is complex and adding some sort of
> intelligent padding was seen as difficult, risky, unwarranted and likely to
> result in more user issues when it did something the user wasn't expecting.
> I'm not convinced that position was wrong. Soft padding was eventually added
> as a half-way measure that is useful to some people and not too invasive
> since it doesn't touch the scheduler.
>
>> I just want it to use different tuners when they are
>> otherwise sitting idle so that I actually get my "soft padding" in the
>> recording.
>
> The best solution for you is probably to use hard padding and manually
> resolve the conflicts by removing the padding. You've got 8 virtual tuners
> so I can't see you having many conflicts.
>
>>
>> Obviously the best solution would be if someone managed to make
>> it so that overlap padding (from two adjacent recordings on the same
>> channel on the same tuner) was recorded once but linked to both recordings
>> (which would solve the disk-use issue mentioned), or encoded once and
>> written to disk twice ? it's even more important in analogue setups. If
>> anybody is keen to work on it, I would be keen to start a donation drive
>> and throw a little cash at the problem.
>
> It's been discussed before. The problem is not the splitting of the signal
> into two recordings, the problem is getting the scheduler to understand. One
> solution would be to implement it in the same way as multirec - multiple
> virtual tuners that can be used together in certain situations. I suppose it
> could also be implemented so that it only applies to soft padding and
> therefore doesn't mess with the scheduler. But I think you'll struggle to
> find a developer interested enough to tackle this.
>
>>
>> If the "soft padding" worked properly (ranking below an actual program but
>> utilising an otherwise-idle card), I wouldn't have thought MythTV would
>> need the default hard-padding rules (as the only time you would need them
>> would be for specific shows that you knew would likely end late).
>
> It's not that simple. There are lots of corner cases where different people
> will want different behaviour (consider the case where someone's tuners
> aren't the same quality-wise). This has been discussed to death in the past
> - check out the main list archives.
>
>>
>> Setting
>> padding in two places is pretty odd, especially when it isn't clear what
>> difference it makes.
>
> The setup descriptions are pretty clear. It would be better if the options
> were all in one place but I'm not sure that's practical given that one
> option is global and the other is not.
>
>>
>> In addition, the sensible way to deal with it would seem to be through the
>> priority system that is already in there. A checkbox similar to the "try
>> to
>> use a different tuner for adjacent recordings on different channels"
>> saying
>> "try to use a different tuner for adjacent recordings on the same channel"
>> would be a much-preferred solution for people with multi-rec up and
>> running. Strangely, it seems that the upshot of all of this is that I can
>> get MythTV to do exactly what I want for adjacent recordings on different
>> channels, but cannot for adjacent recordings on the same channel.
>
> It's worth suggesting. It's probably the most practical way of solving your
> particular need.
>
>>
>> From a practical point of view, it sounds as though I will need to remove
>> the soft-padding, change the default rules for new recordings and then go
>> through and add hard-padding to each of my existing recordings. I accept
>> that it will probably work, but it seems a bit of a dirty hack.
>
> Actually you used the dirty hack in the first place by using soft padding.
> What you now need to do is to set Myth up the way the developers intended it
> to be used in the first place. Incidentally your experience is pretty much
> why the developers resisted soft padding in the first place.
>


there are many threads on this on the mythtvusers list. It has been
debated and explained ad infinitum.

Their archives are in the same place as ours.

Although not wanting to stifle discussion there is very little point
in thrashing a dead horse!


From alan.p at orcon.net.nz  Sat Apr 10 07:04:33 2010
From: alan.p at orcon.net.nz (AlanP)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:04:33 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>

What would you all consider good in terms of enough performance for three 
channels recording at the same time (off the Freeview DVB-S streams), while 
also watching something from the same drive?

Would a Samsung F2EG 1TB drive be enough? Should I go for a couple in Raid 
zero, with another IDE drive I already have as the boot one?

I currently have a 160G IDE, and 2 320G SATA drives all lumped together in 
Linux'es native what-ever-it-is setup, and at times in the evenings it gets 
mildly laggy.

--
Alan Podjursky                  ICQ 24423014
"When in doubt, use brute force." -- Ken Thompson 



From stevehodge at gmail.com  Sat Apr 10 07:31:17 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:31:17 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
Message-ID: <s2x24b589d91004092331i54c8a403hf80f832d68580dac@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 6:04 PM, AlanP <alan.p at orcon.net.nz> wrote:

> What would you all consider good in terms of enough performance for three
> channels recording at the same time (off the Freeview DVB-S streams), while
> also watching something from the same drive?
>
> Would a Samsung F2EG 1TB drive be enough? Should I go for a couple in Raid
> zero, with another IDE drive I already have as the boot one?
>

Yes, the Samsung will be enough. No, you don't need RAID 0.

DVB-S SD streams require about 2-2.5GB per hour: i.e. about 0.7MB per
second. A modern drive is capable of easily 35MB per second write speed (for
example). With only 4 transfers going at once you'd probably be fine even
with HD streams.

I don't regularly record three things at once but I have had two things
recording, one undergoing commercial detection and one being watched and
have never had any problems, even with the db and all recordings being on
the same three year old drive. This happened a lot during the olympics.

I currently have a 160G IDE, and 2 320G SATA drives all lumped together in
> Linux'es native what-ever-it-is setup, and at times in the evenings it gets
> mildly laggy.
>

I doubt drive bandwidth is the problem. It could be that you don't have
enough ram so are swapping. It could be database performance - having the
database on a different drive to the recordings is a good idea. The sort of
random access to files that databases do can significantly impact the
sequential read/write performance that video files typically enjoy.

Now that Myth has storage groups you'd be far better of not having those
drives combined with LVM or whatever. Just assign them to separate storage
groups and let Myth handle the load balancing. Keep one drive free for the
system and the database and everything will be great.

Cheers,
Steve
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From alan.p at orcon.net.nz  Sat Apr 10 07:44:53 2010
From: alan.p at orcon.net.nz (AlanP)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:44:53 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <s2x24b589d91004092331i54c8a403hf80f832d68580dac@mail.gmail .com>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
	<s2x24b589d91004092331i54c8a403hf80f832d68580dac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410184250.026ca190@pop.orcon.net.nz>

At 06:31 p.m. 10/04/2010, you wrote:
>I doubt drive bandwidth is the problem. It could be that you don't have 
>enough ram so are swapping. It could be database performance - having the 
>database on a different drive to the recordings is a good idea. The sort 
>of random access to files that databases do can significantly impact the 
>sequential read/write performance that video files typically enjoy.

1G of RAM in there, so probably not that. Probably.

>Now that Myth has storage groups you'd be far better of not having those 
>drives combined with LVM or whatever. Just assign them to separate storage 
>groups and let Myth handle the load balancing. Keep one drive free for the 
>system and the database and everything will be great.

Oh good, looks like a fresh install of Knoppmyth is in the cards in a month 
or so. (Just ordered a new amp for my guitar, no spare tech money at the mo.)

Might mount the 1TB as /tera or /myth or something, and have everything 
else on the boot.

>Cheers,
>Steve

--
Alan Podjursky                  ICQ 24423014
"When in doubt, use brute force." -- Ken Thompson 



From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Sat Apr 10 09:36:34 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:36:34 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
Message-ID: <bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:04:33 +1200, you wrote:

>What would you all consider good in terms of enough performance for three 
>channels recording at the same time (off the Freeview DVB-S streams), while 
>also watching something from the same drive?
>
>Would a Samsung F2EG 1TB drive be enough? Should I go for a couple in Raid 
>zero, with another IDE drive I already have as the boot one?

I would be a little wary of the "eco" and "green" type drives.  They
are actually 5400 rpm mostly, although they can run faster sometimes.
I have WD 1.5 Tbyte green drive and it has wildly varying performance
with Vista - I can not predict if a given file transfer will be very
slow or very fast.  It is supposed to speed up to 7200 rpm as
necessary, but sometimes it does not even when copying a
multi-gigabyte file.  And the base speed when running at 5400 is
annoyingly slow.

I am currently using a Samsung HD103UJ (plain 7200 rpm drive, no
eco/green stuff) with everything except the swap partition on the same
drive.  With this drive, I find I am recording 4 programs at once at
least twice a week without any problems.  That would normally be a mix
of DVT-T HD, DVB-T SD and one Sky via MPEG2 hardware encoding (similar
data rate to TV1 HD at 720p).  On top of that I am playing back one
program and running two commercial skip processing jobs and while the
hard disk is busy, there is no sign that it is unable to cope.  MythTV
does run a bit sluggishly though when using the menus, but playback
once it starts is still smooth.

The drive specification that matters most is probably not the transfer
rate, but the access time, as when using the MythTV database and
running multiple recordings and so on at the same time, the drive is
spending most of its time moving the heads around.

I would recommend putting the system and database on one drive and
recordings on another if you can manage that.  Ideally having two
drives for recordings would be a good thing if you want to have good
performance in the menus while also doing lots of other things.  Myth
has options for whether you want it to spread activity around to
balance storage use, balance I/O activity, or balance both as best it
can.

My recordings partition is JFS (recommended), with everything else
ext3.  I do not recommend ext4 yet as it is much more liable to lose
data and get corrupted in emergency situations (such as power failure
or PC crash).

>I currently have a 160G IDE, and 2 320G SATA drives all lumped together in 
>Linux'es native what-ever-it-is setup, and at times in the evenings it gets 
>mildly laggy.

There appears to be a mild memory leak in mythfrontend at present, and
a really bad one in KDE's plasma-desktop.  That makes my box very
laggy unless I shut them down and restart them every so often to
prevent major swapping activity.  I have seen plasma-desktop using 1
Gibyte of RAM!


From duncan.kennington at gmail.com  Sat Apr 10 09:44:39 2010
From: duncan.kennington at gmail.com (Duncan Kennington)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:44:39 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
	<bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <y2zddd8e1d71004100144r7c64ef53l4516b54dc99a0b88@mail.gmail.com>

I don't have the information to hand but you need to use a special format
for those WD greens under windows as the sector size is a bit different. I
have two of these and they outperform my 7200rpm 250gb drive, which is a
couple of years older admittedly. Google the model and performance there's a
forum post that covers how to do it.

Sent from the tiny keyboard on my phone.

On 10/04/2010 8:37 PM, "Stephen Worthington" <stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz>
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:04:33 +1200, you wrote:

>What would you all consider good in terms of enough...
I would be a little wary of the "eco" and "green" type drives.  They
are actually 5400 rpm mostly, although they can run faster sometimes.
I have WD 1.5 Tbyte green drive and it has wildly varying performance
with Vista - I can not predict if a given file transfer will be very
slow or very fast.  It is supposed to speed up to 7200 rpm as
necessary, but sometimes it does not even when copying a
multi-gigabyte file.  And the base speed when running at 5400 is
annoyingly slow.

I am currently using a Samsung HD103UJ (plain 7200 rpm drive, no
eco/green stuff) with everything except the swap partition on the same
drive.  With this drive, I find I am recording 4 programs at once at
least twice a week without any problems.  That would normally be a mix
of DVT-T HD, DVB-T SD and one Sky via MPEG2 hardware encoding (similar
data rate to TV1 HD at 720p).  On top of that I am playing back one
program and running two commercial skip processing jobs and while the
hard disk is busy, there is no sign that it is unable to cope.  MythTV
does run a bit sluggishly though when using the menus, but playback
once it starts is still smooth.

The drive specification that matters most is probably not the transfer
rate, but the access time, as when using the MythTV database and
running multiple recordings and so on at the same time, the drive is
spending most of its time moving the heads around.

I would recommend putting the system and database on one drive and
recordings on another if you can manage that.  Ideally having two
drives for recordings would be a good thing if you want to have good
performance in the menus while also doing lots of other things.  Myth
has options for whether you want it to spread activity around to
balance storage use, balance I/O activity, or balance both as best it
can.

My recordings partition is JFS (recommended), with everything else
ext3.  I do not recommend ext4 yet as it is much more liable to lose
data and get corrupted in emergency situations (such as power failure
or PC crash).


>I currently have a 160G IDE, and 2 320G SATA drives all lumped together in
>Linux'es native what-...
There appears to be a mild memory leak in mythfrontend at present, and
a really bad one in KDE's plasma-desktop.  That makes my box very
laggy unless I shut them down and restart them every so often to
prevent major swapping activity.  I have seen plasma-desktop using 1
Gibyte of RAM!


_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz...
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Sat Apr 10 09:45:08 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:45:08 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
	<bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1270889108.25111.23.camel@sodium>

On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 20:36 +1200, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> I would be a little wary of the "eco" and "green" type drives.  They
> are actually 5400 rpm mostly, although they can run faster sometimes.
> I have WD 1.5 Tbyte green drive and it has wildly varying performance
> with Vista - I can not predict if a given file transfer will be very
> slow or very fast.  It is supposed to speed up to 7200 rpm as
> necessary, but sometimes it does not even when copying a
> multi-gigabyte file.  And the base speed when running at 5400 is
> annoyingly slow.

I've got 4 WD Green drives and find them acceptably fast for storing
media and handling multiple recordings etc.

> My recordings partition is JFS (recommended), with everything else
> ext3.  I do not recommend ext4 yet as it is much more liable to lose
> data and get corrupted in emergency situations (such as power failure
> or PC crash).

I also use JFS and like it but I'm not sure your accusations on ext4 are
valid, do you have a source for them. I've been using it on my desktop
and laptop for a while with no issues.

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Sat Apr 10 10:02:58 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:02:58 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <1270889108.25111.23.camel@sodium>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
	<bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>
	<1270889108.25111.23.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <o1f0s51bjn39og95d07qs7nle1vv90pe7e@4ax.com>

On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 20:45:08 +1200, you wrote:

>On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 20:36 +1200, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> I would be a little wary of the "eco" and "green" type drives.  They
>> are actually 5400 rpm mostly, although they can run faster sometimes.
>> I have WD 1.5 Tbyte green drive and it has wildly varying performance
>> with Vista - I can not predict if a given file transfer will be very
>> slow or very fast.  It is supposed to speed up to 7200 rpm as
>> necessary, but sometimes it does not even when copying a
>> multi-gigabyte file.  And the base speed when running at 5400 is
>> annoyingly slow.
>
>I've got 4 WD Green drives and find them acceptably fast for storing
>media and handling multiple recordings etc.
>
>> My recordings partition is JFS (recommended), with everything else
>> ext3.  I do not recommend ext4 yet as it is much more liable to lose
>> data and get corrupted in emergency situations (such as power failure
>> or PC crash).
>
>I also use JFS and like it but I'm not sure your accusations on ext4 are
>valid, do you have a source for them. I've been using it on my desktop
>and laptop for a while with no issues.

From the horse's mouth.  I was looking at the changelist for the ext4
driver a few months ago, and the author was saying that the changes he
was doing were to make ext4 perform a bit more like ext3 when it gets
cut off by a crash or power failure.  He said that ext3 performing
well under those circumstances was pure fluke, not a design feature,
but that everyone had got so used to ext3 doing it well that when ext4
did not, he was forced to sacrifice a bit of performance in ext4 to
make it work better, but not as well as ext3.

So, in your use of ext4, how many times have you reset or powered of
an ext4 partition without it having been shut down properly first?
That is when the problems happen.  With ext3, if the partition is idle
for 10? seconds, it will flush everything to disk.  Apparently ext4
does (did?) not do that for performance reasons, and could get caught
with things left in RAM that never made it to disk.  Ext3 can too, but
it is quite rare due to the automatic flushing.  Leaving an ext4
partition idle for hours could still result in things not being
flushed and a power failure has (had?) a pretty good probability of
catching it in that sort of state.


From hads at nice.net.nz  Sat Apr 10 10:12:03 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:12:03 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <o1f0s51bjn39og95d07qs7nle1vv90pe7e@4ax.com>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
	<bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>
	<1270889108.25111.23.camel@sodium>
	<o1f0s51bjn39og95d07qs7nle1vv90pe7e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1270890723.25111.26.camel@sodium>

On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 21:02 +1200, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> So, in your use of ext4, how many times have you reset or powered of
> an ext4 partition without it having been shut down properly first? 

Probably a dozen, no data loss issues so far. In use on 5 boxes.

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From drtimlockyer at gmail.com  Sat Apr 10 12:43:09 2010
From: drtimlockyer at gmail.com (tim Lockyer)
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 23:43:09 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
Message-ID: <i2wf4378e021004100443zb75c1f1drb0f1058c7d6aa8b3@mail.gmail.com>

Alan

I use 3 samsung 1TB set up as a Raid 5. It was so easy, even for some new
like me, and it gives a good level of security.

Tim

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 6:04 PM, AlanP <alan.p at orcon.net.nz> wrote:

> What would you all consider good in terms of enough performance for three
> channels recording at the same time (off the Freeview DVB-S streams), while
> also watching something from the same drive?
>
> Would a Samsung F2EG 1TB drive be enough? Should I go for a couple in Raid
> zero, with another IDE drive I already have as the boot one?
>
> I currently have a 160G IDE, and 2 320G SATA drives all lumped together in
> Linux'es native what-ever-it-is setup, and at times in the evenings it gets
> mildly laggy.
>
> --
> Alan Podjursky                  ICQ 24423014
> "When in doubt, use brute force." -- Ken Thompson
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
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From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Sun Apr 11 00:01:26 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 11:01:26 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] Drive throughput
In-Reply-To: <bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20100410180227.02831268@pop.orcon.net.nz>
	<bf90s5558rclbu6bp55jibtsd0gj5dav8h@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <43535.192.168.0.254.1270940486.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.homelinux.net>


On Sat, April 10, 2010 8:36 pm, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:04:33 +1200, you wrote:
>
>>What would you all consider good in terms of enough performance for three
>>channels recording at the same time (off the Freeview DVB-S streams),
>> while
>>also watching something from the same drive?
>>
>>Would a Samsung F2EG 1TB drive be enough? Should I go for a couple in
>> Raid
>>zero, with another IDE drive I already have as the boot one?
>
> I would be a little wary of the "eco" and "green" type drives.  They
> are actually 5400 rpm mostly, although they can run faster sometimes.
> I have WD 1.5 Tbyte green drive and it has wildly varying performance
> with Vista - I can not predict if a given file transfer will be very
> slow or very fast.  It is supposed to speed up to 7200 rpm as
> necessary, but sometimes it does not even when copying a
> multi-gigabyte file.  And the base speed when running at 5400 is
> annoyingly slow.
>

In my own rig I have an old IDE disk for the root filesystem, database etc.

Then I have a WD WD10EACS for recordings, which is an older green series
drive.

My record is 7 recordings - 3 DVB-S and 4 DVB-T, off two tuners, whilst
watching a previously recorded show. Note that none of these were HD
recordings.

On the test rig I'm still using some older Seagate 250GB HDs. and I've run
over 8 recordings, some in HD, across 3 tuners without any recording or
playback issues.

Steve

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From solorvox at gmail.com  Mon Apr 12 02:25:00 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:25:00 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
Message-ID: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys,

Does anyone know how to get DVB-T Freeview MHEG-5 data into mythtv EPG
for program scheduling?  My interactive viewer (F12 on FE) is able to
view the MHEG data, but my mythtv EPG is all empty except for next
hour worth of EIT data.

I'd really rather not use some xml scraping as they always seem to go
up and down as people find out you're using it for a computer instead
of reading it. (roll eyes)

Oh, and anyone got a good local (CHCH) source for a phased array panel
UHF antenna?

Cheers

Mythtv 0.23
HVR-2200 PCIe (DVB-T)


From hads at nice.net.nz  Mon Apr 12 02:39:52 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:39:52 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271036392.12559.52.camel@sodium>

On Mon, 2010-04-12 at 13:25 +1200, Solor Vox wrote:
> Does anyone know how to get DVB-T Freeview MHEG-5 data into mythtv EPG
> for program scheduling?  My interactive viewer (F12 on FE) is able to
> view the MHEG data, but my mythtv EPG is all empty except for next
> hour worth of EIT data. 

You can't.

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From pshem.k at gmail.com  Mon Apr 12 03:51:28 2010
From: pshem.k at gmail.com (Pshem Kowalczyk)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:51:28 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz]  Good DVB-T USB capture device
Message-ID: <u2j20fe625b1004111951h746725a9v7bba4ca08b5816c7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'll hijack my own thread here.

After a lot of experimenting over the weekend and overhauling all of
the internal aerial wiring I've achieved some progress, but still not
enough. Before the changes I had two splitters hanging of each other,
that got replaced with one 4-way splitter, I also changed all the
connectors. I executed quite a few tests, using live tv and
simultaneous recording.

Results:

1. It might be just me, but using the internal splitter with ANT1
plugged in works best for me. Plugging cable only into ANT2 gives me
40-50% signal strength on the first tuner and about 65-66% on the
second one. If I only plug the cable into ANT1 I get about 72-73% on
the first tuner and about 70% on the second one. Plugging both of them
(sourced from the same external splitter) does not improve anything,
quite the opposite - every now and then the first tuner will go down
to 40-50% which suggests that the card might be using its internal
splitter and signal from ANT2 instead of using signal from ANT1. When
and why it happens is a mystery to me. In all cases I get about 2.3dB
S/N.

2. For some reason, on the multiplex that carries TVONE, even with
signal strength of 73% (and 2.4dB) sometimes I get severe distortions
(i.e. it is not watchable) that do not go away with time. Changing to
one of the other multiplexes and then back seems to fix the issue.

3. Using the force_lna_activation paramter seems to drop a bit the
signal strength for some reason (about 1-2% on both tuners), beyond
that it doesn't change anything (i.e. the distortions still
occasionally occur).


4. Signal on the satellite card that I have (Technistar) is about 79%
to 81% (sourced from the same external splitter) and about 4.7dB S/N.


Is the signal strength good enough to get reliable DVB-T? I live in an
apartment block and we have one central aerial system (for both
satellite and terrestrial  signals). I had no receptions problem with
my old analog TV capture card, but obviously DVB-T has different
requirements.

If the card is not good enough - what do you think is the best choice
for a single USB tuner? (I don't have any more PCI slots left and the
nova-500-td works well for two multiplexes, so all I need is one more
tuner).

kind regards
Pshem


From dave2 at wetstring.net  Mon Apr 12 04:51:20 2010
From: dave2 at wetstring.net (David Zanetti)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:51:20 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>

On Mon, 2010-04-12 at 13:25 +1200, Solor Vox wrote:
> Does anyone know how to get DVB-T Freeview MHEG-5 data into mythtv EPG
> for program scheduling?  My interactive viewer (F12 on FE) is able to
> view the MHEG data, but my mythtv EPG is all empty except for next
> hour worth of EIT data.

Myth has no support for it. MHEG-5 is aimed at being a display format,
so it's more or less screen scraping to get it into the EPG data inside
myth. And would probably break all the time.

There is full EIT on DVB-S.




From killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 12 05:16:05 2010
From: killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:16:05 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
Message-ID: <x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>

Is text in the guide in MHEG-5 guide absolutely positioned or some thing?

I was under the impression that it was a csv file in the stream.. at
least in england?

On 12 April 2010 15:51, David Zanetti <dave2 at wetstring.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-04-12 at 13:25 +1200, Solor Vox wrote:
>> Does anyone know how to get DVB-T Freeview MHEG-5 data into mythtv EPG
>> for program scheduling? ?My interactive viewer (F12 on FE) is able to
>> view the MHEG data, but my mythtv EPG is all empty except for next
>> hour worth of EIT data.
>
> Myth has no support for it. MHEG-5 is aimed at being a display format,
> so it's more or less screen scraping to get it into the EPG data inside
> myth. And would probably break all the time.
>
> There is full EIT on DVB-S.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>



-- 
"Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
pointless. " - Calven


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Mon Apr 12 05:42:35 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:42:35 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Jason Taylor <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Is text in the guide in MHEG-5 guide absolutely positioned or some thing?
>
> I was under the impression that it was a csv file in the stream.. at
> least in england?
>

I believe that's more or less right, but the exact format is at the whim of
the broadcaster (as opposed to EIT data where it is specified by the
standard). Freveview could change that format at any time. Since the
software is also embedded in the MHEG stream they'd have no concerns about
breaking users' devices, so I doubt they'll hesitate to make changes (unlike
Sky who have to do a remote firmware upgrade with all the risks that
entails).

Cheers,
Steve
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From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Mon Apr 12 05:51:52 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:51:52 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


On Mon, April 12, 2010 4:42 pm, Steve Hodge wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Jason Taylor
> <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Is text in the guide in MHEG-5 guide absolutely positioned or some
>> thing?
>>
>> I was under the impression that it was a csv file in the stream.. at
>> least in england?
>>
>
> I believe that's more or less right, but the exact format is at the whim
> of
> the broadcaster (as opposed to EIT data where it is specified by the
> standard). Freveview could change that format at any time. Since the
> software is also embedded in the MHEG stream they'd have no concerns about
> breaking users' devices, so I doubt they'll hesitate to make changes
> (unlike
> Sky who have to do a remote firmware upgrade with all the risks that
> entails).
>

This is something akin to a csv file inside the MHEG stream but the
structure is defined by the actual EPG application which is also in the
MHEG stream. As such they can both change at any time.

At the moment the most reliable solution for a DTT only user is to use one
of the freeview XMLTV files out on the net.


--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From hoiho.nz at gmail.com  Mon Apr 12 06:04:14 2010
From: hoiho.nz at gmail.com (Tony Sauri)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:04:14 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201004121704.37499.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:15, Jason Taylor wrote:
> Is text in the guide in MHEG-5 guide absolutely positioned or some thing?
>
> I was under the impression that it was a csv file in the stream.. at
> least in england?
>

I didn't want to leap in here till I had a clear story for everyone but I can 
confirm that there is structured programme data in the mheg stream and it can 
be extracted much like epgsnoop and then massaged into xmltv format

I am currently experimenting, developing  and testing an epgsnoop like system
that is very raw at the moment and full of hard code but if anyone wants to 
get their hands dirty this is what I have at the moment.


First thing is to get a copy of rb-download:   look for RedButton at 
sourceforge.

Then run this perl proc to capture the data onto your hard drive
Locally I call this module mhegsnoop.pl

Note that internally this proc uses a python module Myth_Test_DVB-T_Card.py 
that has been hacked from something Hads (I think) did for the epgsnoop 
system.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#!/usr/bin/perl -w

# PERL MODULES WE WILL BE USING

    use POSIX ":sys_wait_h";


sub RunTime;

my $commontimestamp = time();
my $YYYYMMDD = RunTime;
$serviceid = 1200;
$parentcount = 0;
$kid = 0;
$free_adapter = "";
$sleep_interval = 0; #seconds
do
{
        sleep $sleep_interval;
        $sleep_interval = 600; #seconds or 10 mins.  If noadapter is available 
try again in 10 mins
        $encoder = 0;
        foreach $loopvar ( 0, 1)
        {
                $encodera = ++$encoder;
                $encoderb = ++$encoder;
                $encoderc = ++$encoder;
                $encoderd = ++$encoder;
                if (`Myth_Test_DVB-T_Card.py  $encodera $encoderb $encoderc 
$encoderd 2> /dev/null` eq "FREE\n")
                {
                        $free_adapter = $loopvar;
                        last;
                }
        }
} until $free_adapter ne "";

setpgrp(0,0);
if ($pid = fork)
{
        do
        {
                $parentcount++;
                sleep 3;
                $percentcomplete = $parentcount * 10 . "%";
                print "EPG Download $percentcomplete Complete\n";
        } until $parentcount == 10;   # 3 x 10 = 30 secs   till we kill 
rb-download
        sleep 2;
        local $SIG{HUP} = 'IGNORE';  # Don't kill ourselves
        kill(HUP, -$$);              # But kill all tasks we may have spawned
        do
        {
                $kid = waitpid($pid,&WNOHANG);
        } until $kid == -1;

}
else
{
        defined($pid)   or die "fork:   $!";
        sleep 3;
        `mkdir /home/tartarus/mheg_data_$YYYYMMDD`;
        system "/home/tartarus/rb-download -a $free_adapter 
-b /home/tartarus/mheg_data_$YYYYMMDD -f /home/tartarus/channels.conf 
$serviceid > /dev/null 2>&1";
}

exit 0;


sub RunTime

{
        my $sec = "";
        my $min = "";
        my $hour = "";
        my $mday = "";
        my $mon = "";
        my $year = "";
        my $wday = "";
        my $yday = "";
        my $isdst = "";
        my @dow = qw(Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat);
        my @moy = qw(Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec);
        ($sec,$min,$hour,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday,$isdst) = 
localtime($commontimestamp);
        return sprintf("%04d", ($year + 1900)) . sprintf("%02d", ($mon + 1)) . 
sprintf("%02d", $mday);
}

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Finally to peek into the data use this perl proc


This really is raw and you will have to massage file names etc to make it work

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#!/usr/bin/perl
#
use File::stat;
$max_element_count = 0;
opendir(DIR, "/home/tartarus/mheg_data_20100412/services/1200/epg/data");
@date_files = grep { /\d+$/ } readdir(DIR);
closedir(DIR);
#print @date_files;
@date_files_sorted = sort {$a <=> $b} @date_files;
foreach $date_file (@date_files_sorted)
{

        opendir(DIR, 
"/home/tartarus/mheg_data_20100412/services/1200/epg/data/$date_file");
        @service_files = grep { /\d+$/ } readdir(DIR);
        closedir(DIR);
        @service_files_sorted = sort {$a <=> $b} @service_files;
        print @service_files_sorted;
        foreach $service_file (@service_files_sorted)
        {
                print "$date_file   $service_file\n";
                $filepath = 
"/home/tartarus/mheg_data_20100412/services/1200/epg/data/$date_file/$service_file";
                $sb = stat($filepath);
                $e = $sb->size;
                print "$e \n";
                #{ local $/ = undef;
                #}
                open (DATAFILE, "< $filepath") or die "cant open $file: $!";
                read(DATAFILE, $buffer, $sb->size);
                close(DATAFILE);
                @data_elements = split(/\x1c/, $buffer);
                $channel_rec = shift(@data_elements);
                print "$channel_rec\n";
                @channel_elements = split(/\x1d/, $channel_rec);
                $element_count = 0;
                foreach $channel_element (@channel_elements)
                {
                        $element_count++;
                        if ($element_count > $max_element_count)
                        {
                                $max_element_count = $element_count;
                        }
                #       print "$element_count ::: $channel_element \n";
                }
                $buffer =~ s/\n/\:\:/g;
                $buffer =~ s/\r/\n\t/g;
                $buffer =~ s/\x1c/\n/g;
                $buffer =~ s/\x1d/\n\t/g;
                print "$buffer";
        }
}
print "$max_element_count\n";
exit;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regards

Tony Sauri


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Mon Apr 12 08:49:08 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 19:49:08 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
Message-ID: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>

Hi all,

Can anyone here confirm the Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1 using
satellite. I have epgsnoop working nicely for all other channels for
both freeview and "the other guys"

My freeview.channels.conf file has 

1926|tv3-plus1.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3 PLUS1|3.jpg|http://freeviewnz.tv/|

this doesn't work :( i.e .... there is no guide data in the xml.

Thanks all in advance.

Daniel




From hads at nice.net.nz  Wed Apr 14 03:06:06 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:06:06 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] 0.23 Watch Recordings INFO keybinding
Message-ID: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>

Hello,

Has anyone running 0.23 managed to work around the new behaviour
introduced in the watch recordings screen with INFO now bringing up the
recording information page rather than the menu?

When it's written as above I can understand the reasoning for doing it,
but it really does seem backwards when you're using the remote, that and
it's now inconsistent with mythvideo.

What I'm looking for is I guess is a way to re-bind the i key to be m,
but only in the watch recordings screen. Anyone got any ideas?

Cheers,

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From nick.rout at gmail.com  Wed Apr 14 04:57:50 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:57:50 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] 0.23 Watch Recordings INFO keybinding
In-Reply-To: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>
References: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Has anyone running 0.23 managed to work around the new behaviour
> introduced in the watch recordings screen with INFO now bringing up the
> recording information page rather than the menu?
>
> When it's written as above I can understand the reasoning for doing it,
> but it really does seem backwards when you're using the remote, that and
> it's now inconsistent with mythvideo.
>
> What I'm looking for is I guess is a way to re-bind the i key to be m,
> but only in the watch recordings screen. Anyone got any ideas?


you can bind keys to certain 'contexts'  - eg global, TV playback etc.
I am not sure of what contexts exist, and whether there is enough fine
tuning to make the screen you want to change the behaviour for as a
separate context. There is a key binding editor in both mythweb and in
the frontend (at least in 0.21).

BUT there are now supposed to be 2 menu keys in mythtv, i and m, so
you really need both bound on your remote anyway.

I suspect there will be a LOT more 0.23 users on the mythtv users list
who may be able to help, although beware the interface war that may
ensue.


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Wed Apr 14 04:59:37 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:59:37 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] 0.23 Watch Recordings INFO keybinding
In-Reply-To: <r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>
	<r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u2t52bd4a781004132059hd44c2d8fh389cbfb9655e3720@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Has anyone running 0.23 managed to work around the new behaviour
>> introduced in the watch recordings screen with INFO now bringing up the
>> recording information page rather than the menu?
>>
>> When it's written as above I can understand the reasoning for doing it,
>> but it really does seem backwards when you're using the remote, that and
>> it's now inconsistent with mythvideo.
>>
>> What I'm looking for is I guess is a way to re-bind the i key to be m,
>> but only in the watch recordings screen. Anyone got any ideas?
>
>
> you can bind keys to certain 'contexts' ?- eg global, TV playback etc.
> I am not sure of what contexts exist, and whether there is enough fine
> tuning to make the screen you want to change the behaviour for as a
> separate context. There is a key binding editor in both mythweb and in
> the frontend (at least in 0.21).
>
> BUT there are now supposed to be 2 menu keys in mythtv, i and m, so
> you really need both bound on your remote anyway.
>
> I suspect there will be a LOT more 0.23 users on the mythtv users list
> who may be able to help, although beware the interface war that may
> ensue.
>

By which I mean don't go sailing in saying "whose dumb idea was it to
change this, it's now a piece of c***  "

But I'm sure you're not that silly. I just remember the furore over
some changes in behaviour between 0.21 and 0.22.


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Wed Apr 14 05:08:05 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:08:05 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] 0.23 Watch Recordings INFO keybinding
In-Reply-To: <r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>
	<r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2u24b589d91004132108i2801075by8ca1da7fff468b2d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:

> BUT there are now supposed to be 2 menu keys in mythtv, i and m, so
> you really need both bound on your remote anyway.
>

Surely most people have had them both bound already? Both i and m have been
useful in playback for years...

Cheers,
Steve
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Wed Apr 14 05:14:39 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:14:39 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] 0.23 Watch Recordings INFO keybinding
In-Reply-To: <r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>
	<r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271218479.6323.50.camel@sodium>

On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 15:57 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
> you can bind keys to certain 'contexts'  - eg global, TV playback etc.
> I am not sure of what contexts exist, and whether there is enough fine
> tuning to make the screen you want to change the behaviour for as a
> separate context. There is a key binding editor in both mythweb and in
> the frontend (at least in 0.21).

Thanks, I don't think it's quite that fine unfortunately as far as I can
tell. It looks like I might need to just learn to deal with it or
maintain a local patch. Ug.

> BUT there are now supposed to be 2 menu keys in mythtv, i and m, so
> you really need both bound on your remote anyway.

Yeah definitely need both bound, but it's going to take a lot of
adjustment for some people.

In watch recordings i now brings up the info page and you need to press
m to get the play, mark as watched etc. In mythvideo you still use i to
get the play, mark as watched, etc. menu.

It just seems to be an inconsistency which is going to cause confusion
for a bunch of people for at least the 0.23 release.

> I suspect there will be a LOT more 0.23 users on the mythtv users list
> who may be able to help, although beware the interface war that may
> ensue. 

Yeah, which is one of the reasons I asked here instead. The wider mythtv
community can unfortunately be kind of unfriendly, I try and minimise my
exposure :)

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From stevehodge at gmail.com  Wed Apr 14 06:06:01 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:06:01 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] 0.23 Watch Recordings INFO keybinding
In-Reply-To: <1271218479.6323.50.camel@sodium>
References: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>
	<r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271218479.6323.50.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <m2w24b589d91004132206qe17ce92eq3e6a04564bcaeb98@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:

> In watch recordings i now brings up the info page and you need to press
> m to get the play, mark as watched etc. In mythvideo you still use i to
> get the play, mark as watched, etc. menu.
>

Don't most people use "select"  (aka enter) to play in both screens? I know
I always have.


> It just seems to be an inconsistency which is going to cause confusion
> for a bunch of people for at least the 0.23 release.
>

Yeah, it does seem a little inconsistent. I think you could alter the theme
to make the menus consistent.

Cheers,
Steve
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Wed Apr 14 06:36:43 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:36:43 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] 0.23 Watch Recordings INFO keybinding
In-Reply-To: <m2w24b589d91004132206qe17ce92eq3e6a04564bcaeb98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>
	<r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271218479.6323.50.camel@sodium>
	<m2w24b589d91004132206qe17ce92eq3e6a04564bcaeb98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271223403.6323.57.camel@sodium>

On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 17:06 +1200, Steve Hodge wrote:
> Don't most people use "select"  (aka enter) to play in both screens? I
> know I always have.

Yeah I would think most people do. Our household uses the watchlist
functionality quite a lot so that's where it's going to be a
re-learning.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From tdegibson at gmail.com  Wed Apr 14 10:01:05 2010
From: tdegibson at gmail.com (Tim Gibson)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:01:05 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] 0.23 Watch Recordings INFO keybinding
In-Reply-To: <1271223403.6323.57.camel@sodium>
References: <1271210766.6323.35.camel@sodium>
	<r2n52bd4a781004132057rd080f05bn673185978354350d@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271218479.6323.50.camel@sodium>
	<m2w24b589d91004132206qe17ce92eq3e6a04564bcaeb98@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271223403.6323.57.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <5ED8D11E-4C8D-437E-9484-77B6D33B4C32@gmail.com>

Logitech Harmony 785... Best investment for this situation...

Regards
Tim Gibson

On 14/04/2010, at 5:36 PM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 17:06 +1200, Steve Hodge wrote:
>> Don't most people use "select"  (aka enter) to play in both  
>> screens? I
>> know I always have.
>
> Yeah I would think most people do. Our household uses the watchlist
> functionality quite a lot so that's where it's going to be a
> re-learning.
>
> hads
>
> -- 
> http://nicegear.co.nz
> New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/


From ross.jemima at gmail.com  Thu Apr 15 21:47:03 2010
From: ross.jemima at gmail.com (Ross and Jemima Knudsen)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:47:03 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
Message-ID: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I was just surfing around the other day and noticed that Zotac have
added some new products to their range which might interest some
people.  Looks like they have added some new mini-PCs which are based
on the Atom/Ion but they are shipping them without HDDs, OSes and
possibly without RAM (I couldn't quite figure that out from the
website).  The link to the product page is here:

http://www.zotac.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=100002&lang=un

Also the new Intel Atom D510 seems to have the Ion GPU on the same
wafer and it interfaces through another bus type other than throught
the FSB.  Does anyone know if that is going to make a big difference
to the performance?


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 15 22:37:51 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:37:51 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

Just built a couple of Zotacs with SSD drives. Did a 7volt mod to the 12
volt fan and it is completely silent. It boots in around 10 seconds. It
uses HDMI out and the sound works perfectly via the HDMI cable.

This board is the perfect front end device. You can source them from a
supplier in Auckland which I forget .... google is your friend.

Cheers

Daniel

On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 08:47 +1200, Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:

> Hi guys,
> 
> I was just surfing around the other day and noticed that Zotac have
> added some new products to their range which might interest some
> people.  Looks like they have added some new mini-PCs which are based
> on the Atom/Ion but they are shipping them without HDDs, OSes and
> possibly without RAM (I couldn't quite figure that out from the
> website).  The link to the product page is here:
> 
> http://www.zotac.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=100002&lang=un
> 
> Also the new Intel Atom D510 seems to have the Ion GPU on the same
> wafer and it interfaces through another bus type other than throught
> the FSB.  Does anyone know if that is going to make a big difference
> to the performance?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Fri Apr 16 03:31:47 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:31:47 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] nzepg.org not responding
Message-ID: <bbhfs5p1prokdqfhbpg3ahu16g3ck27t7k@4ax.com>

I was just checking my logs and found that the EPG update had not
worked - the download from nzepg.org timed out without any response
from the server.  That was at 01:30 last night, and I just tried it
manually now and it is still not responding.

So now I am off to modify my script so it will email me about critical
errors like this.


From hads at nice.net.nz  Fri Apr 16 03:45:44 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:45:44 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] nzepg.org not responding
In-Reply-To: <bbhfs5p1prokdqfhbpg3ahu16g3ck27t7k@4ax.com>
References: <bbhfs5p1prokdqfhbpg3ahu16g3ck27t7k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1271385944.31101.215.camel@sodium>

On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 14:31 +1200, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> So now I am off to modify my script so it will email me about critical
> errors like this.

It's not really that critical, you should still have 6 days of data.

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Fri Apr 16 06:02:26 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:02:26 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] nzepg.org not responding
In-Reply-To: <1271385944.31101.215.camel@sodium>
References: <bbhfs5p1prokdqfhbpg3ahu16g3ck27t7k@4ax.com>
	<1271385944.31101.215.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <4prfs5pcc5sg76j44d2e9g87cnro02i20a@4ax.com>

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:45:44 +1200, you wrote:

>On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 14:31 +1200, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> So now I am off to modify my script so it will email me about critical
>> errors like this.
>
>It's not really that critical, you should still have 6 days of data.

True, but if I have to get my satellite card going to get EIT, it will
take all of those 6 days.


From hads at nice.net.nz  Fri Apr 16 06:10:20 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:10:20 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] nzepg.org not responding
In-Reply-To: <4prfs5pcc5sg76j44d2e9g87cnro02i20a@4ax.com>
References: <bbhfs5p1prokdqfhbpg3ahu16g3ck27t7k@4ax.com>
	<1271385944.31101.215.camel@sodium>
	<4prfs5pcc5sg76j44d2e9g87cnro02i20a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1271394620.31101.250.camel@sodium>

On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 17:02 +1200, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> True, but if I have to get my satellite card going to get EIT, it will
> take all of those 6 days. 

Fair enough.

An alternative would be a script checking the myth database to see how
many days worth of data are left.

It's probably only a couple lines worth using the Python bindings though
I need to see what they changed out from under me in 0.23 :)

hads


-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From mythtvnz at hb.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 00:59:24 2010
From: mythtvnz at hb.net.nz (David)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:59:24 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] xmltv-proc-nz - failed - nzepg.org
Message-ID: <o2n458b90651004161659u3acd38capfeb66f4c719506ad@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All

It appears today that my guide creation process has fallen over - the
outputs from xmltv-proc-nz contain:

No JSON object could be decoded

When I run xmltv-proc-nz the result is Version check failed.

I assume this is as a result of nzepg.org been offline - does anyone know
the reason behind this - ie has it gone for good, or a little glitch and
will be back with us soon?

Cheers
David
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 01:42:26 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 12:42:26 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] xmltv-proc-nz - failed - nzepg.org
In-Reply-To: <o2n458b90651004161659u3acd38capfeb66f4c719506ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <o2n458b90651004161659u3acd38capfeb66f4c719506ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271464946.14291.1.camel@sodium>

On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 11:59 +1200, David wrote:
> I assume this is as a result of nzepg.org been offline - does anyone
> know the reason behind this - ie has it gone for good, or a little
> glitch and will be back with us soon?

Working fine for me since this morning.

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From mythtvnz at hb.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 01:48:57 2010
From: mythtvnz at hb.net.nz (David)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 12:48:57 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] xmltv-proc-nz - failed - nzepg.org
In-Reply-To: <1271464946.14291.1.camel@sodium>
References: <o2n458b90651004161659u3acd38capfeb66f4c719506ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271464946.14291.1.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <v2p458b90651004161748l24d1251fpd6e9dcec97febc10@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks - it is working for me again...  while on the topic of xmltv-proc-nz
am I missing something - I have version 0.5.5, however the JSON file returns
that the current version is 0.5.6...

Cheers
David

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:

> On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 11:59 +1200, David wrote:
> > I assume this is as a result of nzepg.org been offline - does anyone
> > know the reason behind this - ie has it gone for good, or a little
> > glitch and will be back with us soon?
>
> Working fine for me since this morning.
>
> --
> http://nicegear.co.nz
> New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 02:00:50 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 13:00:50 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] xmltv-proc-nz - failed - nzepg.org
In-Reply-To: <v2p458b90651004161748l24d1251fpd6e9dcec97febc10@mail.gmail.com>
References: <o2n458b90651004161659u3acd38capfeb66f4c719506ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271464946.14291.1.camel@sodium>
	<v2p458b90651004161748l24d1251fpd6e9dcec97febc10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271466050.14291.6.camel@sodium>

On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 12:48 +1200, David wrote:
> Thanks - it is working for me again...  while on the topic of
> xmltv-proc-nz am I missing something - I have version 0.5.5, however
> the JSON file returns that the current version is 0.5.6...

...........Looks like I never released 0.5.6 for some reason. I'm not
sure what the features were, probably nothing too major. I'm currently
working on 0.5.7 which I'll release after playing with a few things. The
major feature is using a web feed to add data such as season/epidode
numbers and whether a show is a repeat etc.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Sat Apr 17 09:51:48 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 20:51:48 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>	<u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
Message-ID: <4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>

Steven Ellis wrote:

> This is something akin to a csv file inside the MHEG stream but the
> structure is defined by the actual EPG application which is also in the
> MHEG stream. As such they can both change at any time.

What sort of application is it? Surely there will be a variety of 
FreeviewHD-approved products out there and they will have to be able to 
deal with updates.

Regards,

Aaron


From ross at inertia.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 09:46:31 2010
From: ross at inertia.net.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 20:46:31 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] xmltv-proc-nz problem with BBC World listings
Message-ID: <4BC97567.2050205@inertia.net.nz>

Hi all

I've presently an issue with the BBCWorldOnTV1 part of xmltv-proc-nz 
(0.55) where the script fails - apparently due to newlines in the wrong 
place:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/bin/xmltv-proc-nz", line 542, in <module>
     BBCWorldOnTV1('tv1.freeviewnz.tv', 'tv1.sky.co.nz'),
   File "/usr/local/bin/xmltv-proc-nz", line 78, in __init__
     header = reader.next()
_csv.Error: new-line character seen in unquoted field - do you need to 
open the file in universal-newline mode?


This was not an issue a couple of days ago on the last successful run 
(yesterday's of course failed due to nzepg.org not responding but this 
is now working again as covered previously on the list.)

I've tried a few things such as different line endings but frankly my 
Python skills are lacking. I've tried downloading the file myself and 
examining, but this does not reveal any obvious problems with the feed 
(to me, at least.) Can anyone else see what is going on here? I presume 
somehow the split on newlines on line 541 did not work and thus the 
parser encounters a newline inside one of the CSV lines.

Thanks

Ross


From hads at nice.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 10:04:14 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:04:14 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] xmltv-proc-nz problem with BBC World listings
In-Reply-To: <4BC97567.2050205@inertia.net.nz>
References: <4BC97567.2050205@inertia.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1271495054.14291.8.camel@sodium>

On Sat, 2010-04-17 at 20:46 +1200, Ross Williamson wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I've presently an issue with the BBCWorldOnTV1 part of xmltv-proc-nz 
> (0.55) where the script fails - apparently due to newlines in the wrong 
> place:

Hi Ross,

There was some unhandled carriage returns in the data from BBC, this
should fix that;

http://nice.net.nz/xmltv-proc-nz

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From ross at inertia.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 10:22:54 2010
From: ross at inertia.net.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:22:54 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] xmltv-proc-nz problem with BBC World listings
In-Reply-To: <1271495054.14291.8.camel@sodium>
References: <4BC97567.2050205@inertia.net.nz> <1271495054.14291.8.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <4BC97DEE.4040802@inertia.net.nz>

On 17/04/10 9:04 PM, Hadley Rich wrote:
> There was some unhandled carriage returns in the data from BBC, this
> should fix that;
>
> http://nice.net.nz/xmltv-proc-nz
>    
Well, that was quick! The new script seems to be working correctly. It 
is a very useful feature.

Thanks for the quick fix, it is much appreciated as is the rest of your 
work in the MythTV community.

Ross


From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 10:25:46 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:25:46 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <9845AA78B2E44B2A849EB879BD21D52F@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aaron Whitehouse" <lists at whitehouse.org.nz>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG


> Steven Ellis wrote:
>
>> This is something akin to a csv file inside the MHEG stream but the
>> structure is defined by the actual EPG application which is also in the
>> MHEG stream. As such they can both change at any time.
>
> What sort of application is it? Surely there will be a variety of
> FreeviewHD-approved products out there and they will have to be able to
> deal with updates.


While I do not know I have been thinking along the same lines as Aaron, if they make any significant changes there is a heap of 
commercial kit that is going to fall over - and there are going to be a heap of upset users complaining about broken commercial 
boxes.   For example the over the air firmware updates are done in blocks of weeks so they are unlikely to happen overnight for all 
commercial users.

So while they might be free to make changes, the chances of these happening very often are in my view remote. 



From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Sat Apr 17 10:54:08 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:54:08 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <201004121704.37499.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004121704.37499.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BC98540.9080403@whitehouse.org.nz>

Tony Sauri wrote:

> I didn't want to leap in here till I had a clear story for everyone but I can 
> confirm that there is structured programme data in the mheg stream and it can 
> be extracted much like epgsnoop and then massaged into xmltv format

Thank you very much for your hard work on this, Tony! It looks great!

Regards,

Aaron


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Sat Apr 17 12:54:46 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 23:54:46 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <9845AA78B2E44B2A849EB879BD21D52F@dp2000xp>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<9845AA78B2E44B2A849EB879BD21D52F@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <r2m24b589d91004170454ldd9fb773o1676ffbfc1f09c67@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> From: "Aaron Whitehouse" <lists at whitehouse.org.nz>
>
> What sort of application is it? Surely there will be a variety of
> > FreeviewHD-approved products out there and they will have to be able to
> > deal with updates.
>

> While I do not know I have been thinking along the same lines as Aaron, if
> they make any significant changes there is a heap of
> commercial kit that is going to fall over - and there are going to be a
> heap of upset users complaining about broken commercial
> boxes.   For example the over the air firmware updates are done in blocks
> of weeks so they are unlikely to happen overnight for all
> commercial users.
>

You're both assuming that the code to build the EPG is in the firmware of
the devices. My understanding is that that is not the case. The firmware
contains an MHEG parser that knows how to build an application from the MHEG
data found in the stream. It's a general purpose thing, basically like a
language runtime. The EPG is implemented as MHEG code delivered in the
broadcast stream and it is the EPG code that understands the guide data that
is also embedded in the stream. So Freeview could, at any time, simply
change the data format and update the EPG code that is in the MHEG stream.
No need for firmware updates at all.

So while they might be free to make changes, the chances of these happening
> very often are in my view remote.
>

I disagree. Since Firmware updates are not required I think changes are
extremely likely. Most likely changes will be driven by increasing
functionality but they could simply change things to make it harder to
extract the data. And if someone writes a tool to extract the EPG data and
the data then gets republished on a website they'd have a good reason to do
so.

Cheers,
Steve
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From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Sat Apr 17 13:18:37 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:18:37 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<9845AA78B2E44B2A849EB879BD21D52F@dp2000xp>
	<r2m24b589d91004170454ldd9fb773o1676ffbfc1f09c67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7187BB1C61924366AEE0AFC3271561FD@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Steve Hodge
To: MythTV in NZ
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG


I think you are saying that essentially the code for a widget is also in the stream, together with the data.

If so I guess the widget interconnection is even less obvious, however if the same environment was reproduced as there was for the 
commercial widget it must be possible that the same changes become seamless for open source apps - as it is for the commercial boxes 
that do not need firmware updates?  I (very quickly) acknowledge that may be very difficult to mimic.

Would there be a need to publish the data on a website if individuals could pull the data from the streams themselves? 



From hoiho.nz at gmail.com  Sat Apr 17 13:25:27 2010
From: hoiho.nz at gmail.com (Tony Sauri)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:25:27 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <201004180025.50845.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 20:51, Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> What sort of application is it? Surely there will be a variety of
> FreeviewHD-approved products out there and they will have to be able to
> deal with updates.
>

A)
There is a procedure for Freeview product Certification and the agreement 
documentation is available here: 
http://www.freeviewnz.tv/images/uploads/freeview_dtt_certification_template.pdf

In Appendix E (Over the Air Downlaod facility) clause 1 states:
1. Subject to a two weeks advanced notice period, TVNZ will provide a DVB-SSU
based ?over the air? download facility for Certifiees to upgrade, maintain, or
otherwise fix software functions of the products certified under this 
agreement.

B)
If you crawl around in the "Carousel" of data that rb-download grabs from the 
MHEG stream you will find various binary files.  I am presuming that these 
binary files are programe files that interprest the data in the HHEG 
programming listing files and display them in pretty formats on the screen 
and also do the clever pic-in-pic stuff too.
Now if Freeview want to change the format of the MHEG programme data they can 
easily do that if they simultaneously send new programes that interpret the 
new data format.  Then the TV's will be OK but our snooping efforts would 
need to decode the new format before we can go back to regenerating our xmltv 
files.

Also because of A above Freeview will have the ability to upload over the air 
new capabilities into their MHEG handling firmware directly to all approved 
freeview devices.

I can see this all ending in tears though .... If some TV manufacturer wishes 
to upgrade a TV's firmware for any reason and some TV owners don't have their 
TV on during the period of the download then that owners Tv will not be 
updated.  If the firmware upgrade stems from a mandated Freeview update 
everything turns to custard when the TV is turned on again.  Interesting...

Regards

Tony


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Sat Apr 17 13:28:46 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:28:46 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <7187BB1C61924366AEE0AFC3271561FD@dp2000xp>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<9845AA78B2E44B2A849EB879BD21D52F@dp2000xp>
	<r2m24b589d91004170454ldd9fb773o1676ffbfc1f09c67@mail.gmail.com>
	<7187BB1C61924366AEE0AFC3271561FD@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <k2w24b589d91004170528s426b292bl24ae18a0a7efcc8a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> I think you are saying that essentially the code for a widget is also in
> the stream, together with the data.
>

That's what I'm saying.

If so I guess the widget interconnection is even less obvious, however if
> the same environment was reproduced as there was for the
> commercial widget it must be possible that the same changes become seamless
> for open source apps - as it is for the commercial boxes
> that do not need firmware updates?  I (very quickly) acknowledge that may
> be very difficult to mimic.
>

Myth already contains an MHEG stack - you can already use the Freeview EPG.
I guess what you're asking is how easy it would be to implement the api that
allows the EPG to tell the device what to record. I have no idea how hard
that would be, though I would guess it wouldn't be too bad. But that would
only allow you to schedule from their guide, it wouldn't get the data into
the Myth guide so it wouldn't be ideal.


> Would there be a need to publish the data on a website if individuals could
> pull the data from the streams themselves?
>

No, but that doesn't mean someone wouldn't do it!

Cheers,
Steve
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From stevehodge at gmail.com  Sat Apr 17 13:40:41 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 00:40:41 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <201004180025.50845.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004180025.50845.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <g2r24b589d91004170540ma16db840ra101bacdd488293@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Tony Sauri <hoiho.nz at gmail.com> wrote:

> I can see this all ending in tears though .... If some TV manufacturer
> wishes
> to upgrade a TV's firmware for any reason and some TV owners don't have
> their
> TV on during the period of the download then that owners Tv will not be
> updated.  If the firmware upgrade stems from a mandated Freeview update
> everything turns to custard when the TV is turned on again.  Interesting...
>

Right, but as I said they don't need to do a firmware update to change the
EPG code. They would need to do a firmware update to extend the capabilities
of the MHEG stack or to fix any bugs in it, but I don't think they'll do
that lightly.

Cheers,
Steve
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From ross.jemima at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 01:56:28 2010
From: ross.jemima at gmail.com (Ross and Jemima Knudsen)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:56:28 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>

Daniel Giddens wrote:
> Just built a couple of Zotacs with SSD drives. Did a 7volt mod to the 12
> volt fan and it is completely silent. It boots in around 10 seconds. It
> uses HDMI out and the sound works perfectly via the HDMI cable.
> 
> This board is the perfect front end device. You can source them from a
> supplier in Auckland which I forget .... google is your friend.

I was meaning the thin client type devices not the MBs (is that what you
were referring to?).



From phillip.baird at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 04:26:34 2010
From: phillip.baird at gmail.com (Phillip B)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:26:34 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Hardware recommendations for new front end?
Message-ID: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

Am just about to embark on building my first front end, and would really
appreciate any advice on hardware components and config??
In terms of spec's it will be playing mostly satellite Freeview recordings.
HD would be nice long term but for now the panel it will be driving only
goes up to 720p.  Sound and video out via HDMI would be preferred.

Based on some previous posts it looks like I should be considering a Zotac
ION ITX A Series 330(?), with 2GB of DDR2 800MHz.  Is 2GB enough?
Would prefer not to have any hard drive so I've either got to boot from a
USB stick or over the network.  Any comments on which is easier?  My
googling suggests booting over the network requires reconfiguring DHCP which
sounds a bit painful, so as I want to keep this as simple as possible I'm
thinking a USB drive might be simpler way to go.

Any suggestions?

thanks

/PhilB
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From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Sun Apr 18 04:50:32 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:50:32 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Hardware recommendations for new front end?
References: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0DBB9968C6642F9A538C6CD55361C4C@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Phillip B
To: MythTV in NZ
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: [mythtvnz] Hardware recommendations for new front end?


>Am just about to embark on building my first front end, and would really appreciate any advice on hardware components and config??

>Based on some previous posts it looks like I should be considering a Zotac ION ITX A Series 330(?), with 2GB of DDR2 800MHz.  Is 
>2GB enough?

2 G is likely to be more than ample, 1G is sufficient, however some additional consideration ensuring the Graphic chip has 512M may 
also be relevant.  (Others may comment here also as I do not have a ION board.)

> Would prefer not to have any hard drive so I've either got to boot from a USB stick or over the network.  Any comments on which is 
> easier?  My googling suggests booting over the network requires reconfiguring DHCP which sounds a bit painful, so as I want to 
> keep this as simple as possible I'm thinking a USB drive might be simpler way to go.

My understanding is that some CF cards are significantly faster than most USB drives.  In my view the current FE HDD sweet spot is 
the 8GB 133x CF cards, I have three performing well here now.  They may crash at some point, which I await with interest.  By the 
time they do I expect SSD prices and speeds will be much sweeter also!  You'd need to confirm the interconnection though, I use IDE, 
however IDE may not be present for you, in which case seeking a fast 8G USB drive (or SATA / CF interface card - see trademe) might 
be best for you. 



From nick.rout at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 06:24:06 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:24:06 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Ross and Jemima Knudsen
<ross.jemima at gmail.com> wrote:
> Daniel Giddens wrote:
>> Just built a couple of Zotacs with SSD drives. Did a 7volt mod to the 12
>> volt fan and it is completely silent. It boots in around 10 seconds. It
>> uses HDMI out and the sound works perfectly via the HDMI cable.
>>
>> This board is the perfect front end device. You can source them from a
>> supplier in Auckland which I forget .... google is your friend.
>
> I was meaning the thin client type devices not the MBs (is that what you
> were referring to?).

They look nice. I wouldn't call it a thin client, more a small PC like a revo.

As you didn't point to a particular product but mention the Atom 510 I
assume you are talking about the ZOTAC ZBOX HD-ID11 which has
previews here:

http://www.legitreviews.com/news/7503/
http://www.slashgear.com/zotac-zbox-hd-id11-ion-2-nettop-announced-0276369/

and google will find you others. From googling it appears to be ION2
which I believe means it's based on an nvidia 2xx series chipset, not
9400 like the ION1. This means it will be able to accelerate more
codecs, like xvid, as well as mpeg2 & h264 that ION1 can do.

i see this computer also has spdif out, which some people want. I
wonder how much it will be in NZ?  The US$199 revo is hard to get here
for less than NZ$600 (I have a daily trademe search).


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 06:31:15 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:31:15 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Ross and Jemima Knudsen
> <ross.jemima at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Daniel Giddens wrote:
>>> Just built a couple of Zotacs with SSD drives. Did a 7volt mod to the 12
>>> volt fan and it is completely silent. It boots in around 10 seconds. It
>>> uses HDMI out and the sound works perfectly via the HDMI cable.
>>>
>>> This board is the perfect front end device. You can source them from a
>>> supplier in Auckland which I forget .... google is your friend.
>>
>> I was meaning the thin client type devices not the MBs (is that what you
>> were referring to?).
>
> They look nice. I wouldn't call it a thin client, more a small PC like a revo.
>
> As you didn't point to a particular product but mention the Atom 510 I
> assume you are talking about the ZOTAC ZBOX HD-ID11 which has
> previews here:
>
> http://www.legitreviews.com/news/7503/
> http://www.slashgear.com/zotac-zbox-hd-id11-ion-2-nettop-announced-0276369/
>
> and google will find you others. From googling it appears to be ION2
> which I believe means it's based on an nvidia 2xx series chipset, not
> 9400 like the ION1. This means it will be able to accelerate more
> codecs, like xvid, as well as mpeg2 & h264 that ION1 can do.
>
> i see this computer also has spdif out, which some people want. I
> wonder how much it will be in NZ? ?The US$199 revo is hard to get here
> for less than NZ$600 (I have a daily trademe search).
>

you'll probably get it to do the most advanced interlacing in mythtv too.


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 06:31:36 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:31:36 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <w2i52bd4a781004172231jfc92cc51g49b2c2b76483d96@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> you'll probably get it to do the most advanced interlacing in mythtv too.
>

or even deinterlacing!


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 06:47:20 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:47:20 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Hardware recommendations for new front end?
In-Reply-To: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <w2y52bd4a781004172247ic2d4f8a0q19df992215f9e8de@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Phillip B <phillip.baird at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Am just about to embark on building my first front end, and would really
> appreciate any advice on hardware components and config??
> In terms of spec's it will be playing mostly satellite Freeview recordings.
> HD would be nice long term but for now the panel it will be driving only
> goes up to 720p.? Sound and video out via HDMI would be preferred.
>
> Based on some previous posts it looks like I should be considering a Zotac
> ION ITX A Series 330(?), with 2GB of DDR2 800MHz.? Is 2GB enough?
> Would prefer not to have any hard drive so I've either got to boot from a
> USB stick or over the network.? Any comments on which is easier?? My
> googling suggests booting over the network requires reconfiguring DHCP which
> sounds a bit painful, so as I want to keep this as simple as possible I'm
> thinking a USB drive might be simpler way to go.
>
> Any suggestions?

acer revo is a good choice if you can get one at a decent price. Or
the zotac ion boards, hell people put 'em in a shoe box or biscuit
tin! You do NOT need the dual core version, the single is cheaper.


From jonathan.hoskin at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 08:16:13 2010
From: jonathan.hoskin at gmail.com (Jonathan Hoskin)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 19:16:13 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Hardware recommendations for new front end?
In-Reply-To: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <w2m289da1ea1004180016g5f3707f8obd8b32af4577042d@mail.gmail.com>

I don't have a river of money, but I have even less time to spend building
hardware, and even less ongoing WAF, so I bought a Mac Mini:
http://store.apple.com/nz/configure/MC238X/A?mco=MTM4MjU3OTg

Ubuntu 9.10 and Myth Frontend installed fine.

It doesn't have onboard HDMI so there's no HDMI audio. It does have optical
SPDIF via the 3.5mm jack. I use a Mini-DVI -> DVI -> HDMI adaptor for
video.

It is the quietest desktop I have ever owned, and it has a much better CPU
than an Ion. Also has a DVD drive, Bluetooth, 11n WiFi, Gigabit Ethernet,
blah, blah....

Oh yeah, and it actually looks pretty good sitting below my TV. ([cough] Not
a shoebox ;) [/cough])...
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From killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 09:15:35 2010
From: killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor)
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 20:15:35 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <g2r24b589d91004170540ma16db840ra101bacdd488293@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004180025.50845.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<g2r24b589d91004170540ma16db840ra101bacdd488293@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <w2q94dd8f6f1004180115u48ca2bcem7c264a04f0e7a827@mail.gmail.com>

> Right, but as I said they don't need to do a firmware update to change the
> EPG code. They would need to do a firmware update to extend the capabilities
> of the MHEG stack or to fix any bugs in it, but I don't think they'll do
> that lightly.

What does the myfreeviewbox branded hardware do then?
It cant be using the standard MHEG-5 app that we all see


-- 
"Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
pointless. " - Calven


From phillip.baird at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 13:21:37 2010
From: phillip.baird at gmail.com (Phillip B)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 00:21:37 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Hardware recommendations for new front end?
In-Reply-To: <w2y52bd4a781004172247ic2d4f8a0q19df992215f9e8de@mail.gmail.com>
References: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2y52bd4a781004172247ic2d4f8a0q19df992215f9e8de@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <h2v53b5dc571004180521yecb7625fxaf1213d8765b13bb@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the advice.  A single-core sounds like the caper - having no fan
has to be bonus.  Looks like I can get a CF-to-Sata converter on trademe.

I see Computer Lounge has the B series but as far as I can tell this does
not come with a power brick... anyone know what's required?  Tried to find
some specs on the Zotac site but was unsuccessful.
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From ross.jemima at gmail.com  Sun Apr 18 22:25:15 2010
From: ross.jemima at gmail.com (Ross and Jemima Knudsen)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:25:15 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 April 2010 17:31, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
>> They look nice. I wouldn't call it a thin client, more a small PC like a revo.

Fair call, I was just trying to make a distinction from the MBs.  If
you network boot them they will be more like a thin client than a
mini-PC.

I think someone mentioned that they would rather have one of the Zotac
MAG units without the HDD - wish granted.  Now I reckon the only thing
thats missing is a built in IR/RF sensor

>> As you didn't point to a particular product but mention the Atom 510 I
>> assume you are talking about the ZOTAC ZBOX HD-ID11 which has
>> previews here:
>>
>> http://www.legitreviews.com/news/7503/
>> http://www.slashgear.com/zotac-zbox-hd-id11-ion-2-nettop-announced-0276369/
>>
>> and google will find you others. From googling it appears to be ION2
>> which I believe means it's based on an nvidia 2xx series chipset, not
>> 9400 like the ION1. This means it will be able to accelerate more
>> codecs, like xvid, as well as mpeg2 & h264 that ION1 can do.

Looks like they haven't really launched the products yet, at least
from the reviews you posted.  I was just wondering if there was
performance gains to be had from integrating the GPU on the same chip
as the CPU.  Maybe the only gain is the space saving?


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Sun Apr 18 23:09:17 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:09:17 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <9845AA78B2E44B2A849EB879BD21D52F@dp2000xp>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271044280.4059.2.camel@waldorf>
	<x2h94dd8f6f1004112116pfc483f25t5ea83cd53e1f143f@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004112142ze8e04744y16641b4d851735fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<48281.60.234.49.2.1271047912.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<4BC976A4.2080403@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<9845AA78B2E44B2A849EB879BD21D52F@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <A0026C07-121D-45A6-8A3A-84ADF2F018AB@openmedia.co.nz>


On 17/04/2010, at 9:25 PM, Tortise wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Aaron Whitehouse" <lists at whitehouse.org.nz>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
> 
> 
>> Steven Ellis wrote:
>> 
>>> This is something akin to a csv file inside the MHEG stream but the
>>> structure is defined by the actual EPG application which is also in the
>>> MHEG stream. As such they can both change at any time.
>> 
>> What sort of application is it? Surely there will be a variety of
>> FreeviewHD-approved products out there and they will have to be able to
>> deal with updates.
> 
> 
> While I do not know I have been thinking along the same lines as Aaron, if they make any significant changes there is a heap of 
> commercial kit that is going to fall over - and there are going to be a heap of upset users complaining about broken commercial 
> boxes.   For example the over the air firmware updates are done in blocks of weeks so they are unlikely to happen overnight for all 
> commercial users.
> 
> So while they might be free to make changes, the chances of these happening very often are in my view remote. 
> 

The official STB have to implement a fairly standard MHEG stack.

The actual EPG is encoded as an MHEG application, and also includes the EPG meta data. As long as freeview transmit a valid MHEG application the STBs can display it. Hence you can use MHEG for other interactive services.

For the myFreeview service certified STBs have to support a series of call backs from the MHEG application so that it can query and set up program information. On option is to extend MythTV to support these callbacks, but then you would have to use their EPG rather than the MythTV native EPG to program shows.

Steve


Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz

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From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Sun Apr 18 23:10:42 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:10:42 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

My frontend - In production for around 2 months now. Disclaimer - full
of one eyed opinions and ramblings :)

You can get the Zotac in NZ from http://www.playtech.co.nz  I bought
online and got it the next day. I found out other NZ advertisers buy
from Playtech as well so this is the source I believe. I checked there
site .... they show a picture of one under mini itx but if you click on
it it says no products. It may need you to call them.

If you use an Intel SSD (solid state drive) it will be silent and boot
in around 10 seconds. I bought 40gb versions for around $225 ish ex GST
from memory. You want the Intel versions as other brands have
historically had longevity and performance issues (these issues may be
fixed now but why risk it). 

SSD drives are fricken auwsum and i'm in the process of upgrading all my
rigs with them. The speed of booting is one of those PC history
milestones in my opinion.

The only fan and or moving parts, would be the one fan in the case which
if you do a 7 volt mod to the 12 volt fan it is also silent. Can't hear
it at night in the bedroom. You need a fan as the CPU has a passive
cooler and we tried it with no fan and it got up over 80 degs .... to
hot .... runs under 45 deg with the fan in the case.

It has all the features you could ever want for a front end. HDMI out,
nvidia on board, optical out, and the wireless works well if you don't
want to run a network cable to it (you are likely to run into issues
trying to stream full 1080p across wireless so hard cabling always
recommended :). I only use VDPau for decoding and I haven't had anything
not work. It is all done on the chip. I only put 1GB memory in and only
allocated 256M to the graphics. If it can't process on the chip then it
will definitely fail .... which it hasn't.

This is the case I used. We hide it behind the screen anyway. I didn't
bother with a dvd drive in the frontend as I can't recall the last time
I played an actual DVD, all my collection is archived on my backend. But
they support a slimline DVD drive if you need one.

http://procase.co.nz/pc/cs3688.htm

Setup of this hardware in Myth/ubuntu was a breeze. No issues with
drivers or bit nots working. I used the a standard full Ubuntu install
and using the avenard repositories for the myth install. After I
finished setting up everything I install ratpoison and have it boot
straight into ratpoison, auto login and run mythfrontend. This takes
just over 10 seconds.

On the backend I do the same but I run gnome. This rig lives in the
garage as it has a few large disks and makes a bit of noise. I did use a
SSD drive in the backend as I love the boot times. Also I run the live
TV directory and recordings directory off the SSD drive as it can read
over 300MB/s on multiple streams which is achievable on my GB network.

I noted people talking about using compact flash .... this is what I did
before the latest SSD versions. Compact flash is very slow, has very
limited write life and you always need to watch what you put on due to
the small sizes. It was doable but you always had to be careful and
think about what you were doing.

Hope this is useful to someone. 

cheers

Daniel



On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 09:25 +1200, Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:

> On 18 April 2010 17:31, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> They look nice. I wouldn't call it a thin client, more a small PC like a revo.
> 
> Fair call, I was just trying to make a distinction from the MBs.  If
> you network boot them they will be more like a thin client than a
> mini-PC.
> 
> I think someone mentioned that they would rather have one of the Zotac
> MAG units without the HDD - wish granted.  Now I reckon the only thing
> thats missing is a built in IR/RF sensor
> 
> >> As you didn't point to a particular product but mention the Atom 510 I
> >> assume you are talking about the ZOTAC ZBOX HD-ID11 which has
> >> previews here:
> >>
> >> http://www.legitreviews.com/news/7503/
> >> http://www.slashgear.com/zotac-zbox-hd-id11-ion-2-nettop-announced-0276369/
> >>
> >> and google will find you others. From googling it appears to be ION2
> >> which I believe means it's based on an nvidia 2xx series chipset, not
> >> 9400 like the ION1. This means it will be able to accelerate more
> >> codecs, like xvid, as well as mpeg2 & h264 that ION1 can do.
> 
> Looks like they haven't really launched the products yet, at least
> from the reviews you posted.  I was just wondering if there was
> performance gains to be had from integrating the GPU on the same chip
> as the CPU.  Maybe the only gain is the space saving?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From Douglas.Pearless at pearless.co.nz  Mon Apr 19 02:31:47 2010
From: Douglas.Pearless at pearless.co.nz (Douglas Pearless)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:31:47 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Hardware recommendations for new front end?
In-Reply-To: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <n2i53b5dc571004172026mcd6e2bbcu1940607f7c30ee1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100419133147.193951e9dyoovu88@www.pearless.org>


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From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Mon Apr 19 04:05:08 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:05:08 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:10:42 +1200, you wrote:

>If you use an Intel SSD (solid state drive) it will be silent and boot
>in around 10 seconds. I bought 40gb versions for around $225 ish ex GST
>from memory. You want the Intel versions as other brands have
>historically had longevity and performance issues (these issues may be
>fixed now but why risk it). 

Bootup time is no longer much of a problem with 10.4 anyway.  I have a
test install on my laptop (5400 rpm drive) and it boots all the way
into mythfrontend (from the grub menu) in 32 seconds.  Shutdown is <
15 seconds.


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Mon Apr 19 04:18:34 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:18:34 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Stephen Worthington
<stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:10:42 +1200, you wrote:
>
>>If you use an Intel SSD (solid state drive) it will be silent and boot
>>in around 10 seconds. I bought 40gb versions for around $225 ish ex GST
>>from memory. You want the Intel versions as other brands have
>>historically had longevity and performance issues (these issues may be
>>fixed now but why risk it).
>
> Bootup time is no longer much of a problem with 10.4 anyway. ?I have a
> test install on my laptop (5400 rpm drive) and it boots all the way
> into mythfrontend (from the grub menu) in 32 seconds.

22 extra seconds is still a lifetime for a "consumer appliance". Then
again we are taught that you should never have to reboot a linux
box...


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Mon Apr 19 04:26:05 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:26:05 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

If you are building a new front end and you had the choice 10 seconds or
32 seconds what would you choose?
Also if you compare compact flash to SSD then longevity and space ...
chalk and cheese.
There is no comparison unless you are building on a tight budget....
even then SSD's are low 200's, SATA and work in any MB.

Within 2 years all drives will be SSD's, next to no power consumption,
no moving parts, 5-6 times the speed. Limited no only by size and price
and these are going up and down in the usual directions like all IT
hardware does.


On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 15:18 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Stephen Worthington
> <stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:10:42 +1200, you wrote:
> >
> >>If you use an Intel SSD (solid state drive) it will be silent and boot
> >>in around 10 seconds. I bought 40gb versions for around $225 ish ex GST
> >>from memory. You want the Intel versions as other brands have
> >>historically had longevity and performance issues (these issues may be
> >>fixed now but why risk it).
> >
> > Bootup time is no longer much of a problem with 10.4 anyway.  I have a
> > test install on my laptop (5400 rpm drive) and it boots all the way
> > into mythfrontend (from the grub menu) in 32 seconds.
> 
> 22 extra seconds is still a lifetime for a "consumer appliance". Then
> again we are taught that you should never have to reboot a linux
> box...
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Mon Apr 19 04:26:15 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:26:15 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0B1742AC73D1482C88D7ADDEE30D6CBB@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Rout" <nick.rout at gmail.com>
To: <stephen at jsw.gen.nz>; "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?


On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Stephen Worthington
<stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:10:42 +1200, you wrote:
>
>>If you use an Intel SSD (solid state drive) it will be silent and boot
>>in around 10 seconds. I bought 40gb versions for around $225 ish ex GST
>>from memory. You want the Intel versions as other brands have
>>historically had longevity and performance issues (these issues may be
>>fixed now but why risk it).
>
> Bootup time is no longer much of a problem with 10.4 anyway. I have a
> test install on my laptop (5400 rpm drive) and it boots all the way
> into mythfrontend (from the grub menu) in 32 seconds.

>22 extra seconds is still a lifetime for a "consumer appliance". Then
again we are taught that you should never have to reboot a linux
box...

Agreed, resume from standby is about 10 secs (CF card) using 9.10, less the other way, what is it in and out of standby on 10.4? 
Also what is your HDD media Stephen? 



From hads at nice.net.nz  Mon Apr 19 04:33:20 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:33:20 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <1271648000.11821.8.camel@lithium.nice.net.nz>

On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 10:10 +1200, Daniel Giddens wrote:
> If you use an Intel SSD (solid state drive) it will be silent and boot
> in around 10 seconds. I bought 40gb versions for around $225 ish ex
> GST from memory. You want the Intel versions as other brands have
> historically had longevity and performance issues (these issues may be
> fixed now but why risk it). 

SSDs are great. The Intel ones are very nice but there are alternatives.
I've been using OCZ Vertex 30GB drives as boot drives on quite a few
machines lately. They are cheaper and nearly up there with the Intel
drives.

I assume the ones you were referring to are the JMicron controller
drives (pretty much all the cheap SSds from all brands). They are slow
and have issues but even one of them may be okay for an HTPC.

If you have to use CF (though I'd recommend an SSD too) then use SLC
flash over MLC.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From stevehodge at gmail.com  Mon Apr 19 04:48:36 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:48:36 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz>wrote:

>  Within 2 years all drives will be SSD's, next to no power consumption, no
> moving parts, 5-6 times the speed. Limited no only by size and price and
> these are going up and down in the usual directions like all IT hardware
> does.
>

Size and particularly price have a long way to move though. The cheapest
SSDs are about $300  for 64GB. That'd get you a 2TB Western Digital SATA
drive. So at best price/GB is 30 times higher for SSDs. I can't see that gap
closing in 2 years. And the biggest SSDs are only around 250GB. Fine for a
desktop, not so good when you've got 3TB of media to store.

Personally I think SSDs will take over as the OS/applications drive in most
new machines within the next 2 years, but they won't account for all drives,
no way.

Cheers,
Steve
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From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Mon Apr 19 05:01:54 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:01:54 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan> <4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

If you read my post you will see I bought an Intel 40GB SSD for $225.
This is not about price per MB it is about 32 seconds boot time vs 10
seconds from cold not from standby. It's about achieving 300MB/s not
60MB/s. It's about running 4 streams at 300MB/s and not 4 streams at a
few MB/s. If you use a new SSD drive you will never go back ... well
that's my opinion anyway. 

I have multiple frontends, some with compact flash, some with HDD and
now some with SSD's. I am speaking from first hand experience not paper
theory.

I agree we are a way off getting 1TB SSD's at cheap prices today. Today
we can get 2TB for under $230. Two years ago we probably were buying
250GB drives for that price.

I use old style drives for the backend because yes SSD's would be way to
expensive to use to TB's of storage. The original topic was frontends
which is where I recommended SSD's over compact flash.

I recon we will see TB SSD's for reasonable prices within 2 years.
Manufacturers will be heading that way versus mechanical drives and as
volume and competition rises the prices will fall. 

Lets repost in two years and see who's right :)

cheers



On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 15:48 +1200, Steve Hodge wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz>
> wrote:
> 
>         Within 2 years all drives will be SSD's, next to no power
>         consumption, no moving parts, 5-6 times the speed. Limited no
>         only by size and price and these are going up and down in the
>         usual directions like all IT hardware does.
> 
> Size and particularly price have a long way to move though. The
> cheapest SSDs are about $300  for 64GB. That'd get you a 2TB Western
> Digital SATA drive. So at best price/GB is 30 times higher for SSDs. I
> can't see that gap closing in 2 years. And the biggest SSDs are only
> around 250GB. Fine for a desktop, not so good when you've got 3TB of
> media to store.
> 
> Personally I think SSDs will take over as the OS/applications drive in
> most new machines within the next 2 years, but they won't account for
> all drives, no way.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Steve
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Mon Apr 19 05:11:34 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:11:34 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz> wrote:
> If you read my post you will see I bought an Intel 40GB SSD for $225. This
> is not about price per MB it is about 32 seconds boot time vs 10 seconds
> from cold not from standby. It's about achieving 300MB/s not 60MB/s. It's
> about running 4 streams at 300MB/s and not 4 streams at a few MB/s.

I can agree with everything you say, except that if you are talking
about a frontend what is the relevance of moving 4 streams at 300
MB/s?

> I use old style drives for the backend because yes SSD's would be way to
> expensive to use to TB's of storage. The original topic was frontends which
> is where I recommended SSD's over compact flash.
>


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Mon Apr 19 06:05:11 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:05:11 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

True, we do cross a bit here .... originally I posted saying I also boot
my backend system drive off SSD and I have my TV recordings directory on
that drive. It's a multi card high def set up using multiplexing so many
front ends hitting the back end and many channels being recorded all at
the same time etc etc

I am also going to boot my windows and Linux desktops off SSD drives
when I get a minute to reinstall them. Have the drives just no the
"minute" :) Why? ... cause once you experience the speed you can't go
back. .... well for me it's like that.


On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 16:11 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz> wrote:
> > If you read my post you will see I bought an Intel 40GB SSD for $225. This
> > is not about price per MB it is about 32 seconds boot time vs 10 seconds
> > from cold not from standby. It's about achieving 300MB/s not 60MB/s. It's
> > about running 4 streams at 300MB/s and not 4 streams at a few MB/s.
> 
> I can agree with everything you say, except that if you are talking
> about a frontend what is the relevance of moving 4 streams at 300
> MB/s?
> 
> > I use old style drives for the backend because yes SSD's would be way to
> > expensive to use to TB's of storage. The original topic was frontends which
> > is where I recommended SSD's over compact flash.
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Mon Apr 19 06:24:48 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:24:48 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <0B1742AC73D1482C88D7ADDEE30D6CBB@dp2000xp>
References: <1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<0B1742AC73D1482C88D7ADDEE30D6CBB@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <aepns5toj4h2igdomahl9jdfkpsiukjqug@4ax.com>

On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:26:15 +1200, you wrote:

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Nick Rout" <nick.rout at gmail.com>
>To: <stephen at jsw.gen.nz>; "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
>Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 3:18 PM
>Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
>
>
>On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Stephen Worthington
><stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:10:42 +1200, you wrote:
>>
>>>If you use an Intel SSD (solid state drive) it will be silent and boot
>>>in around 10 seconds. I bought 40gb versions for around $225 ish ex GST
>>>from memory. You want the Intel versions as other brands have
>>>historically had longevity and performance issues (these issues may be
>>>fixed now but why risk it).
>>
>> Bootup time is no longer much of a problem with 10.4 anyway. I have a
>> test install on my laptop (5400 rpm drive) and it boots all the way
>> into mythfrontend (from the grub menu) in 32 seconds.
>
>>22 extra seconds is still a lifetime for a "consumer appliance". Then
>again we are taught that you should never have to reboot a linux
>box...
>
>Agreed, resume from standby is about 10 secs (CF card) using 9.10, less the other way, what is it in and out of standby on 10.4? 
>Also what is your HDD media Stephen? 

It is a Hitachi Travelstar 5K160 2.5" SATA drive (HTS542516K9SA00):

  http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/products/travelstar/5K160/

Not exactly the fastest drive, but very reliable.  I have never tried
standby with Mythbuntu, as it boots fast enough anyway.  And I can not
use standby when rebooting to Vista, as Vista loads incompatible
firmware into my USB tuner and it then does not work unless I power it
down so that it will cold boot.


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Mon Apr 19 06:48:54 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:48:54 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <h2s24b589d91004182248n29b847b2x73b5b2bbaf7f6773@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz>wrote:

>  If you read my post you will see I bought an Intel 40GB SSD for $225. This
> is not about price per MB it is about 32 seconds boot time vs 10 seconds
> from cold not from standby. It's about achieving 300MB/s not 60MB/s. It's
> about running 4 streams at 300MB/s and not 4 streams at a few MB/s. If you
> use a new SSD drive you will never go back ... well that's my opinion
> anyway.
>
> I have multiple frontends, some with compact flash, some with HDD and now
> some with SSD's. I am speaking from first hand experience not paper theory.
>

I don't disagree with any of that. But you said "Within 2 years all drives
will be SSD's". I don't think so. That's the only point I addressed in my
reply; the bit I quoted.

I agree we are a way off getting 1TB SSD's at cheap prices today. Today we
> can get 2TB for under $230. Two years ago we probably were buying 250GB
> drives for that price.
>

Not quite. 2 years I bought a 320GB drive for $110 and 6 months after that I
bought a 500GB for $115. 2 years ago I think $230 was buying at least 500GB.

I use old style drives for the backend because yes SSD's would be way to
> expensive to use to TB's of storage. The original topic was frontends which
> is where I recommended SSD's over compact flash.
>

I'm not questioning your recommendation.


> I recon we will see TB SSD's for reasonable prices within 2 years.
> Manufacturers will be heading that way versus mechanical drives and as
> volume and competition rises the prices will fall.
>

Unlike with HDs, SSDs prices scan pretty much linearly with capacity. So
you're expecting something that right now would cost $4000+ to be say $250
in two years. Looking at the drives I've bought (12 drives between 80GB and
1500GB in that last 6 years) there's actually a pretty solid linear trend
for the log of the price per GB. It works out quite close to price/GB
falling by 33% per year. For SSDs to manage a drop from $4000 to $250 they'd
need to drop by 75% per year. SSDs are much less mature technology-wise so
they should drop faster for a while but that fast? I don't think so.

Or looking at it the other way, capacities have to increase by a factor of
nearly 16: a doubling every 6 months. SSDs seem likely to be closer to
Moore's law: doubling every 18 months.


> Lets repost in two years and see who's right :)
>

Sure. But if I can still buy a non-SSD drive then I win, right? You did say
"all" :-)

Seriously though they'll definitely be much cheaper/larger. But I think
it'll take more like 4-5 years to the 1TB for $250 type of prices. At that
point whether or not HDs have a place will depend on what sorts of
capacities they've reached. If they're still ahead by a factor of 5-10 for
the same price then they certainly will. If it's only a factor 2 then maybe
not.

Cheers,
Steve
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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Mon Apr 19 07:30:13 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:30:13 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz> wrote:
> True, we do cross a bit here .... originally I posted saying I also boot my
> backend system drive off SSD and I have my TV recordings directory on that
> drive. It's a multi card high def set up using multiplexing so many front
> ends hitting the back end and many channels being recorded all at the same
> time etc etc

so sorry if I am being thick, but you can't have a lot of room for
recordings on that ssd drive. Or do you really mean you just have Live
TV on that drive?

In relation to the future price debate, surely standard hard drive
prices will continue to fall. So although we may be buying terabytes
of ssd drives at reasonable prices in X years, we'll also be able to
buy hard drives with scores or hundreds of terabytes for reasonable
prices. Given the tendency for people with media PCs to keep
everything for as long as possible, many will chose the
scores/hundreds of terabytes, even if ssd's are faster.


From blmiller at slingshot.co.nz  Mon Apr 19 10:13:22 2010
From: blmiller at slingshot.co.nz (Brett Miller)
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 21:13:22 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Has anyone seen the new Zotac units?
In-Reply-To: <i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>	<1271367471.7457.89.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<4BCA58BC.40903@gmail.com>	<r2j52bd4a781004172224l6865add7j9671a67f3337803b@mail.gmail.com>	<o2q52bd4a781004172231t9ff4afdem3fb5d6a120ea662b@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BCC1EB2.8010705@slingshot.co.nz>

It could be real...

http://www.zotac.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=100033&lang=en

The CPU bus architecture looks same as the i5 (P55 chipset).
The GPU looks to have feature set "C" so should be very good & do vdpau 
hq scaling as well.



On 19/04/2010 9:25 a.m., Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:
> On 18 April 2010 17:31, Nick Rout<nick.rout at gmail.com>  wrote:
>    
>>> They look nice. I wouldn't call it a thin client, more a small PC like a revo.
>>>        
> Fair call, I was just trying to make a distinction from the MBs.  If
> you network boot them they will be more like a thin client than a
> mini-PC.
>
> I think someone mentioned that they would rather have one of the Zotac
> MAG units without the HDD - wish granted.  Now I reckon the only thing
> thats missing is a built in IR/RF sensor
>
>    
>>> As you didn't point to a particular product but mention the Atom 510 I
>>> assume you are talking about the ZOTAC ZBOX HD-ID11 which has
>>> previews here:
>>>
>>> http://www.legitreviews.com/news/7503/
>>> http://www.slashgear.com/zotac-zbox-hd-id11-ion-2-nettop-announced-0276369/
>>>
>>> and google will find you others. From googling it appears to be ION2
>>> which I believe means it's based on an nvidia 2xx series chipset, not
>>> 9400 like the ION1. This means it will be able to accelerate more
>>> codecs, like xvid, as well as mpeg2&  h264 that ION1 can do.
>>>        
> Looks like they haven't really launched the products yet, at least
> from the reviews you posted.  I was just wondering if there was
> performance gains to be had from integrating the GPU on the same chip
> as the CPU.  Maybe the only gain is the space saving?
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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From markk at kc.net.nz  Mon Apr 19 21:02:47 2010
From: markk at kc.net.nz (Mark Kendall)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 08:02:47 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<i2i7e86c88d1004181425rc503f6ebh1d6d524a6c89c762@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271628642.22591.61.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>



On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 18:30 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:


> 
> In relation to the future price debate, surely standard hard drive
> prices will continue to fall. So although we may be buying terabytes
> of ssd drives at reasonable prices in X years, we'll also be able to
> buy hard drives with scores or hundreds of terabytes for reasonable
> prices. Given the tendency for people with media PCs to keep
> everything for as long as possible, many will chose the
> scores/hundreds of terabytes, even if ssd's are faster.
> 
> _______________________________________________


We're using some Corsair P256MB SSDs at work (unfortunately the 512MB
and 1TB are in 3.5" enclosures and we need 2.5") because their price now
makes them easier to purchase.  I'm expecting SSDs to spiral down in
price and rotational HD's to go down for a little longer and then stop
getting cheaper as both demand and size limitations bite.  As soon as
prices drop a bit more I'll be wanting one (or more) for home :-)

Mark
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From stevehodge at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 02:19:49 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 13:19:49 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
Message-ID: <s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Mark Kendall <markk at kc.net.nz> wrote:

>  On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 18:30 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
>
> In relation to the future price debate, surely standard hard drive
> prices will continue to fall. So although we may be buying terabytes
> of ssd drives at reasonable prices in X years, we'll also be able to
> buy hard drives with scores or hundreds of terabytes for reasonable
> prices. Given the tendency for people with media PCs to keep
> everything for as long as possible, many will chose the
> scores/hundreds of terabytes, even if ssd's are faster.
>
>
>  We're using some Corsair P256MB SSDs at work (unfortunately the 512MB and
> 1TB are in 3.5" enclosures and we need 2.5") because their price now makes
> them easier to purchase.  I'm expecting SSDs to spiral down in price and
> rotational HD's to go down for a little longer and then stop getting cheaper
> as both demand and size limitations bite.  As soon as prices drop a bit more
> I'll be wanting one (or more) for home :-)
>

I'll be getting at least one sometime in the next year.

Coincidentally I came across this Computerworld article today via Slashdot:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9175690/Why_aren_t_SSDs_getting_cheaper_?taxonomyName=Storage+Hardware&taxonomyId=149
It says that NAND flash prices have been increasing for the last year and
are expected to be flat until 2011 due to shortage of supply. Between 2007
and 2009 prices had dropped 60% each year, which is still not the 75% per
year I mentioned in my other email. 75% would get us from $4000 per TB to
$250 per TB in two years, 60% would only get us to $640. Factoring in a year
of stable prices before returning to 60% drops each year means that a 1TB
SSD should be about $1600 in two years time. That's nowhere near cheap
enough for widespread adoption for people who need TBs of storage. But 64GB
SSDs should have dropped to about $120 in two years time which will make
them very common for boot/application drives.

Of course Nick is right that HD prices won't stand still. Assuming they
continue to fall by 33% each year then in two years 1.5TB HDs should be
about $60 (which is the lowest price a HD can really get to). I can easily
imagine most new machines having a $120 64GB SSD and a $60 1.5TB HD then.

Beyond that it really depends on how much storage people commonly need. In 5
years time, assuming prices of SSDs are stable for a year and then drop at
60%/year for four years, $100 will get you 1TB. The cheapest HDs, still
around $60, should be about 5TB. Will most users need more than 1TB? If not
then SSDs will dominate the market. But 5 years are a long time and I don't
think HDs will be able to sustain 33%/year price drops that long and I doubt
SSDs will still be dropping 60% per year by then either.

Cheers,
Steve
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From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Tue Apr 20 04:26:17 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:26:17 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

The Point I was originally making is that using these drives are mind
blowing. The speed of boot, loading applications, multitasking (unraring
3 rars at same time with no performance hit etc etc) That is why I
bought them and at sub $300 they are worth it. I wouldn't spend more
than that regardless of capacity or technology.

WHEN! the 1TB drives drop below $300 then I will upgrade my back end
storage as well. But right now they have and will continue to be my main
boot drives and application drives due to performance and nothing to do
with price.

Steve have you used and SSD ?? Actually anyone commenting on here have
you had the pleasure?? ..... We run Myth ... we aren't normal people,
performance and doing crazy off the wall things with technology is why
we are here ... if it was price then we would by MySky or something
similar boring and broken heh :)

All I was trying to say was using SSD's for the first time was mind
blowing ... it reminded me of the first voodoo graphics card, doom,
720p/1080p, all things that changed my 30 plus years in computing.
whether it was waiting for a spectrum tape to load or windows to boot 32
seconds now reduced to 10 ... we have been stuck at 60MB/s for years and
now finally we can have 300+MB/s with multiple threads .... no more
defragging!!!! and way more.... and sub $300 for usable space. ..... if
you haven't tried them all I am saying is you should before you fall
into the $$/MB argument for not as it nothing to do with $$ its all
about mind blowing new technology at a sub $300 price.

I feel sorry for anyone that waits 2 years or even 6 months before they
discover what an SSD drive does technology wise over a standard
mechanical drive.



On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 13:19 +1200, Steve Hodge wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Mark Kendall <markk at kc.net.nz> wrote:
> 
>         On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 18:30 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
>         
>         > In relation to the future price debate, surely standard hard drive
>         > prices will continue to fall. So although we may be buying terabytes
>         > of ssd drives at reasonable prices in X years, we'll also be able to
>         > buy hard drives with scores or hundreds of terabytes for reasonable
>         > prices. Given the tendency for people with media PCs to keep
>         > everything for as long as possible, many will chose the
>         > scores/hundreds of terabytes, even if ssd's are faster.
>         > 
>         
>         We're using some Corsair P256MB SSDs at work (unfortunately
>         the 512MB and 1TB are in 3.5" enclosures and we need 2.5")
>         because their price now makes them easier to purchase.  I'm
>         expecting SSDs to spiral down in price and rotational HD's to
>         go down for a little longer and then stop getting cheaper as
>         both demand and size limitations bite.  As soon as prices drop
>         a bit more I'll be wanting one (or more) for home :-)
> 
> I'll be getting at least one sometime in the next year.
> 
> Coincidentally I came across this Computerworld article today via
> Slashdot:
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9175690/Why_aren_t_SSDs_getting_cheaper_?taxonomyName=Storage+Hardware&taxonomyId=149
> It says that NAND flash prices have been increasing for the last year
> and are expected to be flat until 2011 due to shortage of supply.
> Between 2007 and 2009 prices had dropped 60% each year, which is still
> not the 75% per year I mentioned in my other email. 75% would get us
> from $4000 per TB to $250 per TB in two years, 60% would only get us
> to $640. Factoring in a year of stable prices before returning to 60%
> drops each year means that a 1TB SSD should be about $1600 in two
> years time. That's nowhere near cheap enough for widespread adoption
> for people who need TBs of storage. But 64GB SSDs should have dropped
> to about $120 in two years time which will make them very common for
> boot/application drives.
> 
> Of course Nick is right that HD prices won't stand still. Assuming
> they continue to fall by 33% each year then in two years 1.5TB HDs
> should be about $60 (which is the lowest price a HD can really get
> to). I can easily imagine most new machines having a $120 64GB SSD and
> a $60 1.5TB HD then.
> 
> Beyond that it really depends on how much storage people commonly
> need. In 5 years time, assuming prices of SSDs are stable for a year
> and then drop at 60%/year for four years, $100 will get you 1TB. The
> cheapest HDs, still around $60, should be about 5TB. Will most users
> need more than 1TB? If not then SSDs will dominate the market. But 5
> years are a long time and I don't think HDs will be able to sustain
> 33%/year price drops that long and I doubt SSDs will still be dropping
> 60% per year by then either.
> 
> Cheers,
> Steve
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From solorvox at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 04:53:19 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:53:19 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <j2vc676777d1004192053m4eec8d62wa43e991204a1be09@mail.gmail.com>

Feel I should chime in here.

I've got some insight here since I've got dual SSD Samsung in a RAID-0 on
one of my systems.  I've been using it for 1 1/2 years now so I can comment
on a few things about them.

1) They are fantastic for reads 150MB/s, 0.3ms access times, no defrags,
etc.
2) Their performance (read and write) degrades over time
3) Their space degrades over time

That said, my write is horrible now.  Often times slower then a single
normal HD.  This is due to a few factors such as not having support for TRIM
and overall design of flash drives in my case.  As the drives get older,
they start to wear out the flash blocks.  Even with "wear-leveling", these
blocks get marked as bad and the drive's space decreases.  Cheaper/older SSD
that didn't support TRIM command is even worse.  So making sure both your
drive and OS/filesystem support TRIM is key.  And it's also important to
point out just like HD, not all are created equal.  Intel's X25-E are crazy
fast, but some cheap models like the X25-M or -V are much different.  Many
good (read more expensive) SSD have reserved space to offset the performance
and space limitation.

As much as people debate it, cost drives sales.  I just got some 1.5TB disks
for $189 each.  In a RAID setup, they offer much more speed than is needed
for doing multiple HD streams.  Sure SSD would be nice, but why waste money
if standard drives can meet your needs and more space?

If you haven't seen this, might be a reason why...
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/04/19/1544256/Why-Arent-SSD-Prices-Going-Down

I agree they are great, but they are not the end all of storage solutions
either.

Cheers
sV

On 20 April 2010 15:26, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz> wrote:

>  The Point I was originally making is that using these drives are mind
> blowing. The speed of boot, loading applications, multitasking (unraring 3
> rars at same time with no performance hit etc etc) That is why I bought them
> and at sub $300 they are worth it. I wouldn't spend more than that
> regardless of capacity or technology.
>
> WHEN! the 1TB drives drop below $300 then I will upgrade my back end
> storage as well. But right now they have and will continue to be my main
> boot drives and application drives due to performance and nothing to do with
> price.
>
> Steve have you used and SSD ?? Actually anyone commenting on here have you
> had the pleasure?? ..... We run Myth ... we aren't normal people,
> performance and doing crazy off the wall things with technology is why we
> are here ... if it was price then we would by MySky or something similar
> boring and broken heh :)
>
> All I was trying to say was using SSD's for the first time was mind blowing
> ... it reminded me of the first voodoo graphics card, doom, 720p/1080p, all
> things that changed my 30 plus years in computing. whether it was waiting
> for a spectrum tape to load or windows to boot 32 seconds now reduced to 10
> ... we have been stuck at 60MB/s for years and now finally we can have
> 300+MB/s with multiple threads .... no more defragging!!!! and way more....
> and sub $300 for usable space. ..... if you haven't tried them all I am
> saying is you should before you fall into the $$/MB argument for not as it
> nothing to do with $$ its all about mind blowing new technology at a sub
> $300 price.
>
> I feel sorry for anyone that waits 2 years or even 6 months before they
> discover what an SSD drive does technology wise over a standard mechanical
> drive.
>
>
>
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From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Tue Apr 20 04:57:41 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:57:41 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <1F1C64E71B7E482A82EF55E684F6D38E@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Daniel Giddens
To: MythTV in NZ
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing

> Actually anyone commenting on here have you had the pleasure?? .....

It may well be that http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/ has not yet come to your attention.  That will confirm 
for you there are previous observations and comparisions from me, my CF promotion is therefore compared to actual SSD use, all be it 
seems I used the bottom of the SSD heap.

Your comments did make me wonder what performance level of CF cards you had used?  I was quoting my experience with 133x level CF 
cards.  133x equates to a relatively slow 25MB/sec. read, 20MB/sec. write - all be it with
essentially zero delay for file reads.  It is slower than fast SSD, but its still acceptable, given the performance is IMO adequate
the economic question may be considered along the lines of prudency before low budget.

>has very limited write life

How long did yours last (presumably with most writes turned off?)

>and you always need to watch what you put on due to the small sizes.

Not sure how this applies to a FE?  (To be clear I was not advocating for CF on BE's.)

Also Daniel, I for one wish to welcome your enthusistic participation here.  While I do not necessarily agree with all you say, your 
experiences are extremely valid and robust debate is great to get to the nub of an issue.  Keep it up! 



From stevehodge at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 05:11:50 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:11:50 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <k2v24b589d91004192111necbea014ra174d5b25190c3a7@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz>wrote:

> WHEN! the 1TB drives drop below $300 then I will upgrade my back end
> storage as well.
>

I'll certainly be upgrading my desktop machines with SSDs. But that doesn't
mean they make sense anywhere else. What benefit do you expect to get by
putting one into your backend? A single modern SATA drive can easily handle
4 HD streams simultaneously. Do you really find that limiting? Do really
need to be able to boot your backend 20s faster?

As for me, I currently have 3TB of storage on a file server (raid5 so really
4.5TB of drives). Access to that storage is limited by gigabit networking,
i.e. theoretically 125MB/s, practically more like 60MB/s. So 300MB/s+ drive
performance doesn't buy me much if anything there. The machine has an uptime
measured in months so faster boot time doesn't justify an upgrade. Even when
1TB SSDs are less than $300, HDs will still be a better solution for me in
that area.


> But right now they have and will continue to be my main boot drives and
> application drives due to performance and nothing to do with price.
>

> Steve have you used and SSD ?? Actually anyone commenting on here have you
> had the pleasure?? ..... We run Myth ... we aren't normal people,
> performance and doing crazy off the wall things with technology is why we
> are here ... if it was price then we would by MySky or something similar
> boring and broken heh :)
>
> All I was trying to say was using SSD's for the first time was mind blowing
> ... it reminded me of the first voodoo graphics card, doom, 720p/1080p, all
> things that changed my 30 plus years in computing. whether it was waiting
> for a spectrum tape to load or windows to boot 32 seconds now reduced to 10
> ... we have been stuck at 60MB/s for years and now finally we can have
> 300+MB/s with multiple threads .... no more defragging!!!! and way more....
> and sub $300 for usable space. ..... if you haven't tried them all I am
> saying is you should before you fall into the $$/MB argument for not as it
> nothing to do with $$ its all about mind blowing new technology at a sub
> $300 price.
>

I'm not arguing that the performance isn't worth the price in the right
situation. I'm just saying that your assertion that in 2 years all drives
will be SSDs is unrealistic. Price may not be a consideration for you but it
will be for most people. I don't have the sort of money required to replace
my 3TB file server with SSDs at even 10x HD prices let alone the 60x HD
prices that SSDs currently command. Especially when the real performance
improvement is going to be less than a 2x increase due to other factors.

Cheers,
Steve
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From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Tue Apr 20 05:25:47 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:25:47 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <j2vc676777d1004192053m4eec8d62wa43e991204a1be09@mail.gmail.com>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<j2vc676777d1004192053m4eec8d62wa43e991204a1be09@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1271737547.2204.49.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

I read many horror stories on the older and cheaper  SSD drives much
like you describe ... original post again ... be careful what model you
buy ... the latest X25M series Intels do not have any of the longevity
issues, performance degrading issue like you describe according to the
articles..... guess I will find out with time.

For the record ... again .....  I agree the are not for back end
storage, not big enough and to expensive for TB's of space .... they
make excellent system drives.


On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 15:53 +1200, Solor Vox wrote:

> Feel I should chime in here.  
> 
> I've got some insight here since I've got dual SSD Samsung in a RAID-0
> on one of my systems.  I've been using it for 1 1/2 years now so I can
> comment on a few things about them.
> 
> 1) They are fantastic for reads 150MB/s, 0.3ms access times, no
> defrags, etc.
> 2) Their performance (read and write) degrades over time
> 3) Their space degrades over time
> 
> That said, my write is horrible now.  Often times slower then a single
> normal HD.  This is due to a few factors such as not having support
> for TRIM and overall design of flash drives in my case.  As the drives
> get older, they start to wear out the flash blocks.  Even with
> "wear-leveling", these blocks get marked as bad and the drive's space
> decreases.  Cheaper/older SSD that didn't support TRIM command is even
> worse.  So making sure both your drive and OS/filesystem support TRIM
> is key.  And it's also important to point out just like HD, not all
> are created equal.  Intel's X25-E are crazy fast, but some cheap
> models like the X25-M or -V are much different.  Many good (read more
> expensive) SSD have reserved space to offset the performance and space
> limitation.  
> 
> As much as people debate it, cost drives sales.  I just got some 1.5TB
> disks for $189 each.  In a RAID setup, they offer much more speed than
> is needed for doing multiple HD streams.  Sure SSD would be nice, but
> why waste money if standard drives can meet your needs and more space?
> 
> If you haven't seen this, might be a reason why...
> http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/04/19/1544256/Why-Arent-SSD-Prices-Going-Down
> 
> I agree they are great, but they are not the end all of storage
> solutions either.
> 
> Cheers
> sV
> 
> 
> On 20 April 2010 15:26, Daniel Giddens <daniel at acsdata.co.nz> wrote:
> 
>         The Point I was originally making is that using these drives
>         are mind blowing. The speed of boot, loading applications,
>         multitasking (unraring 3 rars at same time with no performance
>         hit etc etc) That is why I bought them and at sub $300 they
>         are worth it. I wouldn't spend more than that regardless of
>         capacity or technology.
>         
>         WHEN! the 1TB drives drop below $300 then I will upgrade my
>         back end storage as well. But right now they have and will
>         continue to be my main boot drives and application drives due
>         to performance and nothing to do with price.
>         
>         Steve have you used and SSD ?? Actually anyone commenting on
>         here have you had the pleasure?? ..... We run Myth ... we
>         aren't normal people, performance and doing crazy off the wall
>         things with technology is why we are here ... if it was price
>         then we would by MySky or something similar boring and broken
>         heh :)
>         
>         All I was trying to say was using SSD's for the first time was
>         mind blowing ... it reminded me of the first voodoo graphics
>         card, doom, 720p/1080p, all things that changed my 30 plus
>         years in computing. whether it was waiting for a spectrum tape
>         to load or windows to boot 32 seconds now reduced to 10 ... we
>         have been stuck at 60MB/s for years and now finally we can
>         have 300+MB/s with multiple threads .... no more
>         defragging!!!! and way more.... and sub $300 for usable
>         space. ..... if you haven't tried them all I am saying is you
>         should before you fall into the $$/MB argument for not as it
>         nothing to do with $$ its all about mind blowing new
>         technology at a sub $300 price.
>         
>         I feel sorry for anyone that waits 2 years or even 6 months
>         before they discover what an SSD drive does technology wise
>         over a standard mechanical drive.
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Tue Apr 20 05:40:28 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:40:28 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <1271737547.2204.49.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<j2vc676777d1004192053m4eec8d62wa43e991204a1be09@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271737547.2204.49.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <1271738428.22757.5.camel@sodium>

On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 16:25 +1200, Daniel Giddens wrote:
> I read many horror stories on the older and cheaper  SSD drives much
> like you describe ... original post again ... be careful what model
> you buy ... the latest X25M series Intels do not have any of the
> longevity issues, performance degrading issue like you describe
> according to the articles..... guess I will find out with time.

Check out this conclusion of an old 2009 article about SSDs; Intel,
Vertex, Samsung and budget models included;

http://anandtech.com/show/2738/31

It's still a good (long) read if you're interested in SSD technology
even if it's a bit dated for prices etc. now.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Tue Apr 20 05:48:10 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:48:10 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <1F1C64E71B7E482A82EF55E684F6D38E@dp2000xp>
References: <x2k7e86c88d1004151347yffbcd21fr5d8b4cb5d2131544@mail.gmail.com>
	<huhns5tuuodlakkjaruc5s4cb44lfaqaj2@4ax.com>
	<p2w52bd4a781004182018neb8a0309q5aa5a6cda38861e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271647565.25930.7.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<1F1C64E71B7E482A82EF55E684F6D38E@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <1271738890.2204.71.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>



On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 15:57 +1200, Tortise wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Daniel Giddens
> To: MythTV in NZ
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
> 
> > Actually anyone commenting on here have you had the pleasure?? .....
> 
> It may well be that http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/ has not yet come to your attention.  That will confirm 
> for you there are previous observations and comparisions from me, my CF promotion is therefore compared to actual SSD use, all be it 
> seems I used the bottom of the SSD heap.
> 
> Your comments did make me wonder what performance level of CF cards you had used?  I was quoting my experience with 133x level CF 
> cards.  133x equates to a relatively slow 25MB/sec. read, 20MB/sec. write - all be it with
> essentially zero delay for file reads.  It is slower than fast SSD, but its still acceptable, given the performance is IMO adequate
> the economic question may be considered along the lines of prudency before low budget.
> 
> >has very limited write life
> 
> How long did yours last (presumably with most writes turned off?)
> 

They still are going in one un-upgraded rig, no writes, ro operating
system with ram drive for logs etc. I never had any failures but you had
to manage them carefully ... I used 4GB CF cards from memory in an IDE
cradle. The native install was just over 2GB. Every upgrade would fill
the spare space and I had to check for space before doing a major
update. Back when we did these only certain CF worked, also motherboards
were fussy on recognising them as IDE drives correctly.  Boot times were
very slow on these. This was all done I think around 3-4 years ago ... I
cant recall exactly ... my comments were based on today if you were
choosing SSD or CF then other than budget there is no comparison.
Interesting as we just upgraded the work setup and I installed 2 SSD
systems and upgraded the CF frontend all at the same time. It was a
first hand comparison of the differences, the CF upgrade was still going
after I finished both SSD fresh installs.



> >and you always need to watch what you put on due to the small sizes.
> 
> Not sure how this applies to a FE?  (To be clear I was not advocating for CF on BE's.)
> 
> Also Daniel, I for one wish to welcome your enthusistic participation here.  While I do not necessarily agree with all you say, your 
> experiences are extremely valid and robust debate is great to get to the nub of an issue.  Keep it up! 


Hey thanks ...  .... hope I am not offending anyone .... nice to share
some of my experiences and happy if someone finds it helpful ..... I'm
not big on theory and written facts (lazy on researching my claims so if
im off by a year, or a MB calc of other fact then please forgive : ) but
I am trying to offer my actual experiences ... I was hacking Tivos
before Myth( started that 10 years ago) and have been using Linux as my
work PC for 11 years (whole company does here including over 100 servers
we support..... I actually think that all these emails in this chain are
agreeing with each other :) ... just email is a hard medium to get
points across accurately sometimes as a point I was making about a front
end (although maybe not clearly stating so) can be easily argued as not
valid for a backend etc etc

maybe I should have registered as Hare ..... that way when I argue SSD
and Tortise argues CF we can all have a chuckle :) jks

> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Tue Apr 20 05:59:40 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:59:40 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

bump :) ...... does anyone have tv3+1 channel data ?????

hads ????

cheers

On Mon, 2010-04-12 at 19:49 +1200, daniel wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Can anyone here confirm the Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1 using
> satellite. I have epgsnoop working nicely for all other channels for
> both freeview and "the other guys"
> 
> My freeview.channels.conf file has 
> 
> 1926|tv3-plus1.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3 PLUS1|3.jpg|http://freeviewnz.tv/|
> 
> this doesn't work :( i.e .... there is no guide data in the xml.
> 
> Thanks all in advance.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Tue Apr 20 06:07:34 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 17:07:34 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Daniel Giddens 
To: MythTV in NZ 
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1


>bump :) ...... does anyone have tv3+1 channel data ?????

I'd say most of us.  

I am sure a quick SSD assisted "hare" trip thru gossamer will assist you get it.
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From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Tue Apr 20 07:47:26 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:47:26 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <54jqs59rtgmo429mg38kvjcbl3nu1hfe1b@4ax.com>

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:26:17 +1200, you wrote:

>WHEN! the 1TB drives drop below $300 then I will upgrade my back end
>storage as well. But right now they have and will continue to be my main
>boot drives and application drives due to performance and nothing to do
>with price.

1 Tbyte drives have been well less than $300 for quite some time now.
And the good ones are capable of significantly more than 100 Mibytes/s
sustained throughput.  1.5 Tbyte drives are well below $200 now also.
2 Tbyte drives are still a little expensive, but coming down now.


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 08:43:27 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 19:43:27 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <54jqs59rtgmo429mg38kvjcbl3nu1hfe1b@4ax.com>
References: <h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<54jqs59rtgmo429mg38kvjcbl3nu1hfe1b@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <h2w24b589d91004200043p42d8499ane3fd9d0f8dc48060@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Stephen Worthington <
stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:26:17 +1200, you wrote:
>
> >WHEN! the 1TB drives drop below $300 then I will upgrade my back end
> >storage as well. But right now they have and will continue to be my main
> >boot drives and application drives due to performance and nothing to do
> >with price.
>
> 1 Tbyte drives have been well less than $300 for quite some time now.
> And the good ones are capable of significantly more than 100 Mibytes/s
> sustained throughput.  1.5 Tbyte drives are well below $200 now also.
> 2 Tbyte drives are still a little expensive, but coming down now.
>

Daniel was talking about 1TB SSD drives.

According to pricespy the best price for a 2TB is $199 - 10 cents a
gigabyte. I kind of wish I'd ripped all my CDs to flac instead of mp3 now...

Cheers,
Steve
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From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Tue Apr 20 10:35:41 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:35:41 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <l2k52bd4a781004072211vb7ae0110hfa735d03a413ec4e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>	<r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>	<acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>	<9452160dba2383185ece86e06fede95f@localhost>	<i2i24b589d91004071824w4439c86azf728dd4c1d4336fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<l2k52bd4a781004072211vb7ae0110hfa735d03a413ec4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BCD756D.4030900@whitehouse.org.nz>

Nick Rout wrote:
> there are many threads on this on the mythtvusers list. It has been
> debated and explained ad infinitum.

Yes, thanks, I spent several hours (seriously) reading them -- I still 
disagree, but that will not get me very far.

I seem bound to accept hard padding and manually override scheduling 
clashes just so that I don't have to see-saw between recordings for the 
first and last minutes of a program. Given that is the case, I already 
know how to change the default record before and record after (which is 
under TV Settings > Recording Priorities, for anyone else who struggled 
to find it there) and how to turn off the soft padding before and after 
(why do we need soft padding after if it is only meant for powering up 
the tuner??), but I was hoping that someone could help me change all of 
my existing recording rules.

To save me manually going through and changing each Recording Rule, can 
anybody think of an SQL statement that would replace all "Begin this 
recording on time" and "End this recording on time" with 2 minutes and 5 
minutes respectively?

Thanks in advance!

Aaron


From solorvox at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 10:49:04 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:49:04 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <h2w24b589d91004200043p42d8499ane3fd9d0f8dc48060@mail.gmail.com>
References: <h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>
	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<54jqs59rtgmo429mg38kvjcbl3nu1hfe1b@4ax.com>
	<h2w24b589d91004200043p42d8499ane3fd9d0f8dc48060@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <t2tc676777d1004200249m350ead68g29055848eaf2dfb2@mail.gmail.com>

Come on guys, surely we all want 1TB SSD like this:

http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000C59-1257770618

$7,179.99 USD, but hey, it does 1.4GB/s read and 1.2GB/s writes with
1GB cache. O.O

So what if it's only $7/GB.  Lets see what the wife says to that. :)

On 20 April 2010 19:43, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:

> Daniel was talking about 1TB SSD drives.
>
> According to pricespy the best price for a 2TB is $199 - 10 cents a gigabyte. I kind of wish I'd ripped all my CDs to flac instead of mp3 now...
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 11:50:41 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 22:50:41 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <4BCD756D.4030900@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<r2m24b589d91004050215tbaef7c72u86fa5cd5806220f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<acdjr51389qsbld4spggm4ap93uc735rj1@4ax.com>
	<9452160dba2383185ece86e06fede95f@localhost>
	<i2i24b589d91004071824w4439c86azf728dd4c1d4336fb@mail.gmail.com>
	<l2k52bd4a781004072211vb7ae0110hfa735d03a413ec4e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BCD756D.4030900@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <s2p24b589d91004200350w113942dv3f81a364b88d1fe1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Aaron Whitehouse
<lists at whitehouse.org.nz>wrote:

> To save me manually going through and changing each Recording Rule, can
> anybody think of an SQL statement that would replace all "Begin this
> recording on time" and "End this recording on time" with 2 minutes and 5
> minutes respectively?
>

I believe this should work:
update record set startoffset = 2, endoffset = 5;

After you've done the update it's probably safest to restart mythbackend so
it reschedules everything.

Cheers,
Steve
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From hoiho.nz at gmail.com  Tue Apr 20 21:30:07 2010
From: hoiho.nz at gmail.com (Tony Sauri)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:30:07 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <4BCD756D.4030900@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<l2k52bd4a781004072211vb7ae0110hfa735d03a413ec4e@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BCD756D.4030900@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <201004210830.30748.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:35, Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
>
> To save me manually going through and changing each Recording Rule, can
> anybody think of an SQL statement that would replace all "Begin this
> recording on time" and "End this recording on time" with 2 minutes and 5
> minutes respectively?
>
 UPDATE record set startoffset = 5 , endoffset = 5 where recordid != 0;

	should do all you want.

I would recommend the installation of phpmyadmin on your backend to allow you 
to interactively inspect and modify your database if you don't know SQL very 
well.

Tony

> Thanks in advance!
>
> Aaron
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/


From pshem.k at gmail.com  Thu Apr 22 02:30:31 2010
From: pshem.k at gmail.com (Pshem Kowalczyk)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 13:30:31 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
Message-ID: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

After a few weeks of struggling with my Nova-500-TD I came to accept
the fact that there is no way I can get TVONE to be recorded properly.
Since the other multiplexes work well I'm planning to install another
tuner.
I have no more PCI slots left, so the only option is USB.  I looked at
AVerMedia AVerTV DVB-T Volar (but apparently the aerial connector is
not that great), Pinnacle PCTV NanoStick DVB-T and the Hauppage
nova-500-t stick (I'm not too sure if I want another Hauppage in my
box). What do you use in that space? Do you have any particularly good
or bad experience with any USB DVB-T cards?

kind regards
Pshem


From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 03:21:37 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:21:37 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68A7A5D4DA25457F9C0AC9FE1C5C8E7E@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pshem Kowalczyk" <pshem.k at gmail.com>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:30 PM
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device


> Hi,
> 
> After a few weeks of struggling with my Nova-500-TD I came to accept
> the fact that there is no way I can get TVONE to be recorded properly.
> Since the other multiplexes work well I'm planning to install another
> tuner.
> I have no more PCI slots left, so the only option is USB.  

Probably not the only option.

Try googling hdhomerun for an Ethernet option - and even an old PC with a PCI tuner(s) can probably also be used.

Sounds odd though.


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 03:41:55 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:41:55 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

touch? ........... did that and my original email mentioned my results.

The threads I found confirmed that the channel id is 1926. I found
nothing saying if you use the latest install instructions for egpsnoop
you need to edit X to get tv3+ to work as well. If I searched to fast
then a link to the thread with all my answers would be appreciated :)

My freeview.channels.conf file has 
 
1926|tv3-plus1.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3 PLUS1|3.jpg|http://freeviewnz.tv/|
 
this doesn't work :( i.e .... there is no guide data in the xml for
tv3-plus1

So I think you answered part of my question being ... "i'd say most of
us" .... so I now know that it should exist and I shall spend some more
time trying to figure out why.

The freeview.channels.conf file is the hads original with no changes.
And to confirm, this is me extracting the data direct from satellite
using epgsnoop.

epgsnoop --config-dir=/home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/ --adapter=1 --tune
12671 --lnb 10750 > /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml

if I search the XML file created from the above then no tv3+ data. All
other channel data is present.

It would be helpful if  anyone can confirm your  freeview channels.conf
file line for the tv3-plus1 channel.

Thanks

Daniel



On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 17:07 +1200, Tortise wrote:

> ? 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Daniel Giddens 
> To: MythTV in NZ 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 4:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
> 
> 
> >bump :) ...... does anyone have tv3+1 channel data ?????
>  
> I'd say most of us.  
>  
> I am sure a quick SSD assisted "hare" trip thru gossamer will assist
> you get it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From criggie at criggie.dyndns.org  Thu Apr 22 03:42:10 2010
From: criggie at criggie.dyndns.org (criggie at criggie.dyndns.org)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:42:10 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BCFB782.4030307@criggie.dyndns.org>

Pshem Kowalczyk wrote, On 04/22/2010 01:30 PM
> After a few weeks of struggling with my Nova-500-TD I came to accept
> the fact that there is no way I can get TVONE to be recorded properly.
> Since the other multiplexes work well I'm planning to install another
> tuner.
> I have no more PCI slots left, so the only option is USB.  I looked at
> AVerMedia AVerTV DVB-T Volar (but apparently the aerial connector is
> not that great), Pinnacle PCTV NanoStick DVB-T and the Hauppage
> nova-500-t stick (I'm not too sure if I want another Hauppage in my
> box). What do you use in that space? Do you have any particularly good
> or bad experience with any USB DVB-T cards?
>    
They're sodding awful.   Consider a mainboard upgrade instead.



From pshem.k at gmail.com  Thu Apr 22 03:49:39 2010
From: pshem.k at gmail.com (Pshem Kowalczyk)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:49:39 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <4BCFB782.4030307@criggie.dyndns.org>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4BCFB782.4030307@criggie.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <n2q20fe625b1004211949g2b6cff0j92dec352b385338c@mail.gmail.com>

On 22 April 2010 14:42,  <criggie at criggie.dyndns.org> wrote:

{cut}

> They're sodding awful. ? Consider a mainboard upgrade instead.

Not really an option at this stage unfortunately. I could possibly get
rid of the DVB-S card, but that's where my EPG currently comes from.

kind regards
Pshem


From g8ecj at gilks.org  Thu Apr 22 04:58:45 2010
From: g8ecj at gilks.org (Robin Gilks)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:58:45 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c6f62f26fdb44f1c1b7c1e8037b3b44.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>


> Hi,
>
> After a few weeks of struggling with my Nova-500-TD I came to accept
> the fact that there is no way I can get TVONE to be recorded properly.
> Since the other multiplexes work well I'm planning to install another
> tuner.
> I have no more PCI slots left, so the only option is USB.  I looked at
> AVerMedia AVerTV DVB-T Volar (but apparently the aerial connector is
> not that great), Pinnacle PCTV NanoStick DVB-T and the Hauppage
> nova-500-t stick (I'm not too sure if I want another Hauppage in my
> box). What do you use in that space? Do you have any particularly good
> or bad experience with any USB DVB-T cards?
>

I'm using a Genius TV-GO USB tuner - change out of $55 and it "Just Works
(TM)"

Never failed in 6 months, it supports multiple PID filtering so multirec
works OK, one day I might even get the coldplug blacklist to load the
drivers correctly (I have to unplug & plug back in if the backend gets
power cycled).


-- 
Robin Gilks




From ross at inertia.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 05:18:48 2010
From: ross at inertia.net.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:18:48 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] =?utf-8?q?Channel=5FID_for_Freeview_TV3-plus-1?=
In-Reply-To: <1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>


> My freeview.channels.conf file has 
>  
> 1926|tv3-plus1.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3 PLUS1|3.jpg|http://freeviewnz.tv/|
>  
> this doesn't work :( i.e .... there is no guide data in the xml for
> tv3-plus1

That's the same line I'm using, but I do get guide data for that channel.
1926 is correct.


Ross


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 05:22:52 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (Daniel Giddens)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:22:52 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>

Thanks very much for the reply ... so that is not my problem then hmmm ?



On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 16:18 +1200, Ross Williamson wrote:

> > My freeview.channels.conf file has 
> >  
> > 1926|tv3-plus1.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3 PLUS1|3.jpg|http://freeviewnz.tv/|
> >  
> > this doesn't work :( i.e .... there is no guide data in the xml for
> > tv3-plus1
> 
> That's the same line I'm using, but I do get guide data for that channel.
> 1926 is correct.
> 
> 
> Ross
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From ross at inertia.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 05:28:59 2010
From: ross at inertia.net.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:28:59 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] =?utf-8?q?Channel=5FID_for_Freeview_TV3-plus-1?=
In-Reply-To: <1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>



> Thanks very much for the reply ... so that is not my problem then hmmm ?

Just out of interest, this quote from you got me wondering:

>> > My freeview.channels.conf file has 

I'm fairly sure the file needs to be called channels.conf and separate
directories need to be used if grabbing from certain three-letter pay TV
operators and Freeview on the same machine.

Eg I have a directory  ~/.epgsnoop-freeview which contains a channels.conf
file. I have a separate channels.conf file in ~/.epgsnoop

You're not using a different channels.conf files to what you expect, are
you? This might explain the lack of the -plus1 channel.

Does the channel appear at the top of the XML file with all the other
channel definitions, and just have no guide data? Or does it not appear at
all (in which case almost certainly you're not using the channels.conf file
you thought you were using?)

Ross


From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Thu Apr 22 05:31:07 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:31:07 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <4BCFB782.4030307@criggie.dyndns.org>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BCFB782.4030307@criggie.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <o7jvs5t6gi95poeu9dhm2vnb79oefnff3v@4ax.com>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:42:10 +1200, you wrote:

>Pshem Kowalczyk wrote, On 04/22/2010 01:30 PM
>> After a few weeks of struggling with my Nova-500-TD I came to accept
>> the fact that there is no way I can get TVONE to be recorded properly.
>> Since the other multiplexes work well I'm planning to install another
>> tuner.

If a Nova 500 TD does not work, I would not expect any other tuner to
be better.  Except maybe one that said it was "extra sensitive" or
something like that.  But the Nova 500 TD has the diversity option
that does that anyway if you plug an antenna into both inputs.

>> I have no more PCI slots left, so the only option is USB.  I looked at
>> AVerMedia AVerTV DVB-T Volar (but apparently the aerial connector is
>> not that great), Pinnacle PCTV NanoStick DVB-T and the Hauppage
>> nova-500-t stick (I'm not too sure if I want another Hauppage in my
>> box). What do you use in that space? Do you have any particularly good
>> or bad experience with any USB DVB-T cards?
>>    
>They're sodding awful.   Consider a mainboard upgrade instead.

That is not my experience, so I am wondering why you are saying that.
All of my USB tuners seem to perform just as well as any other tuner,
when running Linux.  They do seem to perform less well with Vista.


From old.duster at gmail.com  Thu Apr 22 05:36:53 2010
From: old.duster at gmail.com (Alastair Lang)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:36:53 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <3c6f62f26fdb44f1c1b7c1e8037b3b44.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<3c6f62f26fdb44f1c1b7c1e8037b3b44.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <q2q42f6aef71004212136gc59bae59gfd50739ddb44e57f@mail.gmail.com>

Same on the Genius TV-GO USB tuner, it was the cheapest in town, plugged it
in, and Bob's-your-Uncle.

So far it's about the only part of my Myth rig that does work... I've got a
lot to learn :S



> I'm using a Genius TV-GO USB tuner - change out of $55 and it "Just Works
> (TM)"
>
> Never failed in 6 months, it supports multiple PID filtering so multirec
> works OK, one day I might even get the coldplug blacklist to load the
> drivers correctly (I have to unplug & plug back in if the backend gets
> power cycled).
>
>
> --
> Robin Gilks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
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From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Thu Apr 22 05:37:31 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:37:31 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <3c6f62f26fdb44f1c1b7c1e8037b3b44.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<3c6f62f26fdb44f1c1b7c1e8037b3b44.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <b9kvs5hceig26ja80tpe31l3s3kjq7le5e@4ax.com>

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:58:45 +1200, you wrote:

>
>> Hi,
>>
>> After a few weeks of struggling with my Nova-500-TD I came to accept
>> the fact that there is no way I can get TVONE to be recorded properly.
>> Since the other multiplexes work well I'm planning to install another
>> tuner.
>> I have no more PCI slots left, so the only option is USB.  I looked at
>> AVerMedia AVerTV DVB-T Volar (but apparently the aerial connector is
>> not that great), Pinnacle PCTV NanoStick DVB-T and the Hauppage
>> nova-500-t stick (I'm not too sure if I want another Hauppage in my
>> box). What do you use in that space? Do you have any particularly good
>> or bad experience with any USB DVB-T cards?
>>
>
>I'm using a Genius TV-GO USB tuner - change out of $55 and it "Just Works
>(TM)"
>
>Never failed in 6 months, it supports multiple PID filtering so multirec
>works OK, one day I might even get the coldplug blacklist to load the
>drivers correctly (I have to unplug & plug back in if the backend gets
>power cycled).

PID filtering has nothing to do with the tuner hardware.  That is done
in the main software, AFAIK, not even in the drivers.

I am not sure if your driver loading problem is the same as mine, but
this is what I needed to do to make my cards use the same adapter
numbers each time.  This is my /etc/modprobe.d/options-dvb.conf file:

#Options to fix the order of the /dev/dvb cards

#Set adapter numbers for Nova-TD 500 DVB-T card (dual tuners), and
AverMedia AverTV DVB-T Volar USB tuner (they use the same driver)
options dvb_usb_dib0700 adapter_nr=0,1,2

#Set adapter number for TeVii S460 DVB-S2 card
options cx23885 adapter_nr=3


From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 05:49:12 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:49:12 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
Message-ID: <608234AB466C4E2DAF1316429A0478A3@dp2000xp>

Daniel

Try "imagebin"ing your {SERVERIP}mythweb/settings/tv/channels and sending the URL here.

PS Bottom posting is the preferred etiquette on this list.


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 06:02:33 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:02:33 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59964.60.234.49.2.1271912553.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


On Thu, April 22, 2010 1:30 pm, Pshem Kowalczyk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After a few weeks of struggling with my Nova-500-TD I came to accept
> the fact that there is no way I can get TVONE to be recorded properly.
> Since the other multiplexes work well I'm planning to install another
> tuner.
> I have no more PCI slots left, so the only option is USB.  I looked at
> AVerMedia AVerTV DVB-T Volar (but apparently the aerial connector is
> not that great), Pinnacle PCTV NanoStick DVB-T and the Hauppage
> nova-500-t stick (I'm not too sure if I want another Hauppage in my
> box). What do you use in that space? Do you have any particularly good
> or bad experience with any USB DVB-T cards?

I've got two USB tuners at the moment
 * Hauppauge HVR 900 - older model
 * Freecom USB DVBT Stick - from the UK

Neither of these come close to performing as well as my HVR 2200 PCIe
card. Often the USB sticks will have very poor reception whilst the HVR
2200 presents a rock solid picture.

Steve

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 06:14:24 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:14:24 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 16:28 +1200, Ross Williamson wrote:
> 
> > Thanks very much for the reply ... so that is not my problem then hmmm ?
> 
> Just out of interest, this quote from you got me wondering:
> 
> >> > My freeview.channels.conf file has 
> 
> I'm fairly sure the file needs to be called channels.conf and separate
> directories need to be used if grabbing from certain three-letter pay TV
> operators and Freeview on the same machine.

Yes it is called channels.conf. It is located
in /home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/

I run the following which should set it to use the above directory which
has the channels.conf in ... unless my syntax is wrong ??

epgsnoop --config-dir=/home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/ --adapter=1 --tune
12671 --lnb 10750 > /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml

> 
> Eg I have a directory  ~/.epgsnoop-freeview which contains a channels.conf
> file. I have a separate channels.conf file in ~/.epgsnoop
> 
> You're not using a different channels.conf files to what you expect, are
> you? This might explain the lack of the -plus1 channel.
> 
> Does the channel appear at the top of the XML file with all the other
> channel definitions, and just have no guide data? Or does it not appear at
> all (in which case almost certainly you're not using the channels.conf file
> you thought you were using?)

no it doesn't appear at the top so I think your onto it ... I might
experiment with my epgsnoop --config-dir syntax and see what results I
get.
> 
> Ross
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/



From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 06:32:40 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:32:40 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <608234AB466C4E2DAF1316429A0478A3@dp2000xp>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<608234AB466C4E2DAF1316429A0478A3@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <1271914360.9009.12.camel@bbox.dp.lan>

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 16:49 +1200, Tortise wrote:
> Daniel
> 
> Try "imagebin"ing your {SERVERIP}mythweb/settings/tv/channels and sending the URL here.
not sure what you mean ?

> 
> PS Bottom posting is the preferred etiquette on this list.
sorry ... thanks 

> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/



From ross at inertia.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 06:56:12 2010
From: ross at inertia.net.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:56:12 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] =?utf-8?q?Channel=5FID_for_Freeview_TV3-plus-1?=
In-Reply-To: <1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <1a2a73c5b0ef393cf8e00009edc7b18f@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>


> Yes it is called channels.conf. It is located
> in /home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/

OK great

> epgsnoop --config-dir=/home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/ --adapter=1 --tune
> 12671 --lnb 10750 > /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml

That's similar to my syntax, the --config-dir part looks correct, anyway.

> no it doesn't appear at the top so I think your onto it ... I might
> experiment with my epgsnoop --config-dir syntax and see what results I
> get.

Right, so there's your problem.

Run through the basics:

* cat /home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/channels.conf and confirm that this is
the file you thought it was
* Check you have write access to /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml
* Remove or empty /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml and confirm that it is,
actually, getting written out (and it's not just that you are seeing an old
version)
* Look at the channel definitions at the top of the XML file created. What
is there? Does it match another channels.conf file on your system?

Ross


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:11:40 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:11:40 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <1271916700.9009.44.camel@bbox.dp.lan>

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 17:14 +1200, daniel wrote:

> On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 16:28 +1200, Ross Williamson wrote:
> > 
> > > Thanks very much for the reply ... so that is not my problem then hmmm ?
> > 
> > Just out of interest, this quote from you got me wondering:
> > 
> > >> > My freeview.channels.conf file has 
> > 
> > I'm fairly sure the file needs to be called channels.conf and separate
> > directories need to be used if grabbing from certain three-letter pay TV
> > operators and Freeview on the same machine.
> 
> Yes it is called channels.conf. It is located
> in /home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/
> 
> I run the following which should set it to use the above directory which
> has the channels.conf in ... unless my syntax is wrong ??
> 
> epgsnoop --config-dir=/home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/ --adapter=1 --tune
> 12671 --lnb 10750 > /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml
> 
> > 
> > Eg I have a directory  ~/.epgsnoop-freeview which contains a channels.conf
> > file. I have a separate channels.conf file in ~/.epgsnoop
> > 
> > You're not using a different channels.conf files to what you expect, are
> > you? This might explain the lack of the -plus1 channel.
> > 
> > Does the channel appear at the top of the XML file with all the other
> > channel definitions, and just have no guide data? Or does it not appear at
> > all (in which case almost certainly you're not using the channels.conf file
> > you thought you were using?)
> 
> no it doesn't appear at the top so I think your onto it ... I might
> experiment with my epgsnoop --config-dir syntax and see what results I
> get.


ok ruled that out, if I rename the channels.conf to test then the
following results

epgsnoop --config-dir=/home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/ --adapter=1 --tune
12671 --lnb 10750 > /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml
Channel file '/home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/channels.conf' not found.

so it is using the correct channels.conf

if I rename it back to channels.conf then the command runs and produces
an XML file .... which is void of tv3-plus1 data.

This is my channels.conf file in the Freeview directory.

###
#
# channels.conf.freeview
#
# This file is part of epgsnoop
#
# Entries are in the format show below;
#
# ***********************************
# *** The line below is important ***
# *** it is used by epgsnoop.     ***
# ***********************************
# CHANNEL_ID|XMLTVID|NAME|ICON|WEBSITE|CHANNEL_NUMBER
#
# Note that the channel number currently serves no purpose.
#
###

1025|maori-tv.freeviewnz.tv|Maori TV|maori_tv.jpg|
http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|9
1035|tv1.freeviewnz.tv|One|1.jpg|http://www.tv1.co.nz/|1
1032|tv2.freeviewnz.tv|TV 2|2.jpg|http://www.tv2.co.nz/|2
1033|tv3.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3|3.jpg|http://www.tv3.co.nz/|3
1034|c4.freeviewnz.tv|C4|c4.jpg|http://www.c4tv.co.nz/|4
1038|tvnz7.freeviewnz.tv|TVNZ 7|tvnz7.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|25
1055|prime.freeviewnz.tv|Prime|prime.jpg|http://www.primetv.co.nz/|5
1903|sportextra.freeviewnz.tv|SportExtra|sportextra.png|
http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|20
1904|tvnz6.freeviewnz.tv|TVNZ 6|tvnz6.png|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|6
1922|stratos.freeviewnz.tv|Stratos|stratos.png|
http://www.stratostv.co.nz/|21
1923|parliament.freeviewnz.tv|Parliament|parliament.jpg|
http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|22
1924|cuetv.freeviewnz.tv|CUE TV|southland_tv.jpg|
http://www.cuetv.co.nz/|23
1926|tv3-plus1.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3 PLUS1|3.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|
8

Can someone post their entire channels.conf for Freeview please?

thanks

Daniel



> > 
> > Ross
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtvnz mailing list
> > mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> > http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> > Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
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From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:17:38 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:17:38 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <1a2a73c5b0ef393cf8e00009edc7b18f@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1a2a73c5b0ef393cf8e00009edc7b18f@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1271917058.9009.50.camel@bbox.dp.lan>

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 17:56 +1200, Ross Williamson wrote:
> > Yes it is called channels.conf. It is located
> > in /home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/
> 
> OK great
> 
> > epgsnoop --config-dir=/home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/ --adapter=1 --tune
> > 12671 --lnb 10750 > /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml
> 
> That's similar to my syntax, the --config-dir part looks correct, anyway.

emails crossed but yes confirmed it is right  - see other email
coming :)
> 
> > no it doesn't appear at the top so I think your onto it ... I might
> > experiment with my epgsnoop --config-dir syntax and see what results I
> > get.
> 
> Right, so there's your problem.
> 
> Run through the basics:
> 
> * cat /home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/channels.conf and confirm that this is
> the file you thought it was
done - yes it is
> * Check you have write access to /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml
yes I have - I delete the file freeview.xml and a new one is created
> * Remove or empty /home/myth/epgdata/freeview.xml and confirm that it is,
> actually, getting written out (and it's not just that you are seeing an old
> version)
> * Look at the channel definitions at the top of the XML file created. What
> is there? Does it match another channels.conf file on your system?
I have run sudo find / -name channels.conf and I only find the one for
freeview and the one for "those other guys"

~/epgdata ]$ sudo find / -name channels.conf
[sudo] password for myth:
/home/myth/.epgsnoop/SKY/channels.conf
/home/myth/.epgsnoop/Freeview/channels.conf


 

> 
> Ross
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/



From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:18:27 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:18:27 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<608234AB466C4E2DAF1316429A0478A3@dp2000xp>
	<1271914360.9009.12.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <2E79D787E13D4436819A5A5A2D48D542@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "daniel" <daniel at acsdata.co.nz>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1


> On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 16:49 +1200, Tortise wrote:
>> Daniel
>> 
>> Try "imagebin"ing your {SERVERIP}mythweb/settings/tv/channels and sending the URL here.
> not sure what you mean ?

Sorry might have been clearer if I said:

http://{BACKEND_IP}/mythweb/settings/tv/channels/

Which should detail settings and may show the problem.  {BACKEND_IP} is your Backend IP!




From ross at inertia.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:25:12 2010
From: ross at inertia.net.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:25:12 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <1271916700.9009.44.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271916700.9009.44.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <4BCFEBC8.8060106@inertia.net.nz>


>
> Can someone post their entire channels.conf for Freeview please?
>

ross at pvr:~$ cat ./.epgsnoop-freeview/channels.conf
###
#
# channels.conf.freeview
#
# This file is part of epgsnoop
#
# Entries are in the format show below;
#
# ***********************************
# *** The line below is important ***
# *** it is used by epgsnoop.     ***
# ***********************************
# CHANNEL_ID|XMLTVID|NAME|ICON|WEBSITE|CHANNEL_NUMBER
#
# Note that the channel number currently serves no purpose.
#
###

1025|maori-tv.freeviewnz.tv|Maori 
TV|maori_tv.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|5

1035|tv1.freeviewnz.tv|One|1.jpg|http://www.tv1.co.nz/|1
1036|tv2.freeviewnz.tv|TV 2|2.jpg|http://www.tv2.co.nz/|2
1038|tvnz7.freeviewnz.tv|TVNZ 7|tvnz7.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|25

1903|sportextra.freeviewnz.tv|SportExtra|sportextra.png|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|20
1904|tvnz6.freeviewnz.tv|TVNZ 6|tvnz6.png|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|6

1920|tv3.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3|3.jpg|http://www.tv3.co.nz/|3
1921|c4.freeviewnz.tv|C4|c4.jpg|http://www.c4tv.co.nz/|4
1922|stratos.freeviewnz.tv|Stratos|stratos.png|http://www.stratostv.co.nz/|21
1923|parliament.freeviewnz.tv|Parliament|parliament.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|22
1926|tv3-plus1.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3 PLUS1|3.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|
1928|prime.freeviewnz.tv|Prime|prime.jpg|http://www.primetv.co.nz/|
1929|rnz-national.freeviewnz.tv|RNZ National|||

1930|rnz-concert.freeviewnz.tv|RNZ Concert|||
1935|georgefm.freeviewnz.tv|GeorgeFM|||
1936|basefm.freeviewnz.tv|BaseFM|||



Ross


From ross at inertia.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:28:01 2010
From: ross at inertia.net.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:28:01 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <1271917058.9009.50.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>	<1a2a73c5b0ef393cf8e00009edc7b18f@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271917058.9009.50.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <4BCFEC71.5090400@inertia.net.nz>


>> * Look at the channel definitions at the top of the XML file created. What
>> is there? Does it match another channels.conf file on your system?
>>      
> I have run sudo find / -name channels.conf and I only find the one for
> freeview and the one for "those other guys"
>    
Can you post (perhaps off-list to stop spamming everyone ;) the 
generated XML file? I'm interested to see what channel definitions are 
there and how that matches your channels.conf


Ross


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:30:01 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:30:01 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <2E79D787E13D4436819A5A5A2D48D542@dp2000xp>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<608234AB466C4E2DAF1316429A0478A3@dp2000xp>
	<1271914360.9009.12.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<2E79D787E13D4436819A5A5A2D48D542@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <1271917801.9009.60.camel@bbox.dp.lan>

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 18:18 +1200, Tortise wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "daniel" <daniel at acsdata.co.nz>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
> 
> 
> > On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 16:49 +1200, Tortise wrote:
> >> Daniel
> >> 
> >> Try "imagebin"ing your {SERVERIP}mythweb/settings/tv/channels and sending the URL here.
> > not sure what you mean ?
> 
> Sorry might have been clearer if I said:
> 
> http://{BACKEND_IP}/mythweb/settings/tv/channels/
> 
> Which should detail settings and may show the problem.  {BACKEND_IP} is your Backend IP!

 ... couple of things ... the backend doesn't run mythweb. it runs a
website that stores the files in /var/www. The files are gzip'd and
copied there locally after they are created. Our myth backends then
download from this website.

The machine is used for creating the xml files and posting on a
traditional web site (which does not have any public access but private
only access for a couple of people.

It does run a mythbackend but it only has basic functionality and
doesn't have most myth services installed. i.e no mythweb

Are you asking for a copy of the gzipped xml file to look at ? can you
attach files here ??
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/



From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:34:44 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:34:44 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <4BCFEBC8.8060106@inertia.net.nz>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271916700.9009.44.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<4BCFEBC8.8060106@inertia.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1271918084.9009.65.camel@bbox.dp.lan>

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 18:25 +1200, Ross Williamson wrote:
> >
> > Can someone post their entire channels.conf for Freeview please?
> >
> 
> ross at pvr:~$ cat ./.epgsnoop-freeview/channels.conf
> ###
> #
> # channels.conf.freeview
> #
> # This file is part of epgsnoop
> #
> # Entries are in the format show below;
> #
> # ***********************************
> # *** The line below is important ***
> # *** it is used by epgsnoop.     ***
> # ***********************************
> # CHANNEL_ID|XMLTVID|NAME|ICON|WEBSITE|CHANNEL_NUMBER
> #
> # Note that the channel number currently serves no purpose.
> #
> ###
> 
> 1025|maori-tv.freeviewnz.tv|Maori 
> TV|maori_tv.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|5
> 
> 1035|tv1.freeviewnz.tv|One|1.jpg|http://www.tv1.co.nz/|1
> 1036|tv2.freeviewnz.tv|TV 2|2.jpg|http://www.tv2.co.nz/|2
> 1038|tvnz7.freeviewnz.tv|TVNZ 7|tvnz7.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|25
> 
> 1903|sportextra.freeviewnz.tv|SportExtra|sportextra.png|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|20
> 1904|tvnz6.freeviewnz.tv|TVNZ 6|tvnz6.png|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|6
> 
> 1920|tv3.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3|3.jpg|http://www.tv3.co.nz/|3
> 1921|c4.freeviewnz.tv|C4|c4.jpg|http://www.c4tv.co.nz/|4
> 1922|stratos.freeviewnz.tv|Stratos|stratos.png|http://www.stratostv.co.nz/|21
> 1923|parliament.freeviewnz.tv|Parliament|parliament.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|22
> 1926|tv3-plus1.freeviewnz.tv|TV 3 PLUS1|3.jpg|http://www.freeviewnz.tv/|
> 1928|prime.freeviewnz.tv|Prime|prime.jpg|http://www.primetv.co.nz/|
> 1929|rnz-national.freeviewnz.tv|RNZ National|||
> 
> 1930|rnz-concert.freeviewnz.tv|RNZ Concert|||
> 1935|georgefm.freeviewnz.tv|GeorgeFM|||
> 1936|basefm.freeviewnz.tv|BaseFM|||
> 
Thanks ... interesting if I cut and paste yours into new channels.conf I
don't get TV3 or TV3-plus1 ... actually I think I miss a few more as
well.

If I replace mine again I get TV3 back again ... still no TV3+1 but all
other channels are there????


> 
> 
> Ross
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/



From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:38:24 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:38:24 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<608234AB466C4E2DAF1316429A0478A3@dp2000xp>
	<1271914360.9009.12.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<2E79D787E13D4436819A5A5A2D48D542@dp2000xp>
	<1271917801.9009.60.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <98814981A7EB49388BFDBA3DC8C237E0@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "daniel" <daniel at acsdata.co.nz>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1

> ? can you
> attach files here ??

I think its discouraged, however use pastebin or put on your server (?) and include url here are options.


From ross at inertia.net.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:53:15 2010
From: ross at inertia.net.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:53:15 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <1271918084.9009.65.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>	<1271916700.9009.44.camel@bbox.dp.lan>	<4BCFEBC8.8060106@inertia.net.nz>
	<1271918084.9009.65.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <4BCFF25B.8060601@inertia.net.nz>


> Thanks ... interesting if I cut and paste yours into new channels.conf I
> don't get TV3 or TV3-plus1 ... actually I think I miss a few more as
> well.
>
>    
You did notice the first line wrapped, I hope? The file I am using was 
in a bzr checkout of epgsnoop. Maybe do the same and see if that file helps?
> If I replace mine again I get TV3 back again ... still no TV3+1 but all
> other channels are there????
Just received your XML file. Curiously it doesn't include anything after 
the cuetv definition. Ie not the radio channels either and they are 
present in mine. Maybe a funny character is causing epgsnoop to stop 
parsing at that point, check your channels.conf around the cuetv/tv3+1 
bit for anything odd.

You can remove Sport Extra from your channels.conf, by the way.

Ross


From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 07:58:46 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:58:46 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <4BCFF25B.8060601@inertia.net.nz>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271916700.9009.44.camel@bbox.dp.lan>	<4BCFEBC8.8060106@inertia.net.nz>
	<1271918084.9009.65.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<4BCFF25B.8060601@inertia.net.nz>
Message-ID: <1271919526.9009.74.camel@bbox.dp.lan>



On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 18:53 +1200, Ross Williamson wrote:
> > Thanks ... interesting if I cut and paste yours into new channels.conf I
> > don't get TV3 or TV3-plus1 ... actually I think I miss a few more as
> > well.
> >
> >    
> You did notice the first line wrapped, I hope? The file I am using was 
> in a bzr checkout of epgsnoop. Maybe do the same and see if that file helps?
yes caught that ... and fixed....

> > If I replace mine again I get TV3 back again ... still no TV3+1 but all
> > other channels are there????
> Just received your XML file. Curiously it doesn't include anything after 
> the cuetv definition. Ie not the radio channels either and they are 
> present in mine. Maybe a funny character is causing epgsnoop to stop 
> parsing at that point, check your channels.conf around the cuetv/tv3+1 
> bit for anything odd.
yes have looked for that using both vi and emacs .... I also move the
order of where they appear in the conf file ... i.e try moving tv3+1 to
top of the file etc.

nothing seems to make a difference although I do think it is a parsing
type error as if I use your file I get even less data (even with the
wrap line fixed ......

trouble is I can't see any issues. I even ruled out new line required at
end of file (like crontab :) tried both ways no diff

> 
> You can remove Sport Extra from your channels.conf, by the way.
> 
> Ross
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/



From daniel at acsdata.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 09:22:49 2010
From: daniel at acsdata.co.nz (daniel)
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:22:49 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Channel_ID for Freeview TV3-plus-1
In-Reply-To: <1271919526.9009.74.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
References: <1271058548.4879.16.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271739580.2204.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<89B5C4E2011B4D10B1405A74E5656AB4@dp2000xp>
	<1271904115.27284.72.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<72fdbfa2aa592a30fde2796a118c394a@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271910172.27284.130.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>
	<068cf441309af819cdfd581fbea35bf9@beryl.wil.inertia.net.nz>
	<1271913264.9009.7.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<1271916700.9009.44.camel@bbox.dp.lan>	<4BCFEBC8.8060106@inertia.net.nz>
	<1271918084.9009.65.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
	<4BCFF25B.8060601@inertia.net.nz>
	<1271919526.9009.74.camel@bbox.dp.lan>
Message-ID: <1271924569.9009.110.camel@bbox.dp.lan>

Fixed ..... make sure you use the correct --tune for freeview being 

--tune 12456 for freeview

--tune 12671 is the "other guys" transponder

Not sure where this tid bit of important info was but if anyone endsup
in the same mess thats the fix.

Thanks all for putting up with me ... off to sulk :)

Ross wins the award for most patient spot the typo of the week award :)





On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 18:58 +1200, daniel wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 18:53 +1200, Ross Williamson wrote:
> > > Thanks ... interesting if I cut and paste yours into new channels.conf I
> > > don't get TV3 or TV3-plus1 ... actually I think I miss a few more as
> > > well.
> > >
> > >    
> > You did notice the first line wrapped, I hope? The file I am using was 
> > in a bzr checkout of epgsnoop. Maybe do the same and see if that file helps?
> yes caught that ... and fixed....
> 
> > > If I replace mine again I get TV3 back again ... still no TV3+1 but all
> > > other channels are there????
> > Just received your XML file. Curiously it doesn't include anything after 
> > the cuetv definition. Ie not the radio channels either and they are 
> > present in mine. Maybe a funny character is causing epgsnoop to stop 
> > parsing at that point, check your channels.conf around the cuetv/tv3+1 
> > bit for anything odd.
> yes have looked for that using both vi and emacs .... I also move the
> order of where they appear in the conf file ... i.e try moving tv3+1 to
> top of the file etc.
> 
> nothing seems to make a difference although I do think it is a parsing
> type error as if I use your file I get even less data (even with the
> wrap line fixed ......
> 
> trouble is I can't see any issues. I even ruled out new line required at
> end of file (like crontab :) tried both ways no diff
> 
> > 
> > You can remove Sport Extra from your channels.conf, by the way.
> > 
> > Ross
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtvnz mailing list
> > mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> > http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> > Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/



From stevehodge at gmail.com  Thu Apr 22 14:03:30 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:03:30 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <b9kvs5hceig26ja80tpe31l3s3kjq7le5e@4ax.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<3c6f62f26fdb44f1c1b7c1e8037b3b44.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
	<b9kvs5hceig26ja80tpe31l3s3kjq7le5e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <n2i24b589d91004220603h8564c74drb490efd8c4e71a6f@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Stephen Worthington <
stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:

> PID filtering has nothing to do with the tuner hardware.  That is done
> in the main software, AFAIK, not even in the drivers.
>

That's not right. Some cards can do hardware PID filtering, for example the
SkyStar 2 I have. I'm not intimately familiar with the dvb subsystem but I
expect that if there is api support for setting up pid filtering then there
are probably drivers that do it for card variants that don't do hw
filtering.

Google "linux dvb pid filtering" and you'll see plenty of mentions.

Cheers,
Steve
-------------- next part --------------
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From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Thu Apr 22 14:54:55 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:54:55 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <n2i24b589d91004220603h8564c74drb490efd8c4e71a6f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<3c6f62f26fdb44f1c1b7c1e8037b3b44.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
	<b9kvs5hceig26ja80tpe31l3s3kjq7le5e@4ax.com>
	<n2i24b589d91004220603h8564c74drb490efd8c4e71a6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbj0t5tg94h7hf1tvercvr7u3jqhp5tfaj@4ax.com>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 01:03:30 +1200, you wrote:

>On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Stephen Worthington <
>stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>> PID filtering has nothing to do with the tuner hardware.  That is done
>> in the main software, AFAIK, not even in the drivers.
>>
>
>That's not right. Some cards can do hardware PID filtering, for example the
>SkyStar 2 I have. I'm not intimately familiar with the dvb subsystem but I
>expect that if there is api support for setting up pid filtering then there
>are probably drivers that do it for card variants that don't do hw
>filtering.
>
>Google "linux dvb pid filtering" and you'll see plenty of mentions.
>
>Cheers,
>Steve

Very interesting.  I found a copy of the DVB API, and it has provision
for passing the PID filtering back to the hardware.

I wonder why none of the cards I have looked at have mentioned in
their advertising or documentation whether they do PID filtering or
not.  It would seem to be a very useful option to cut down on the
required processing in the CPU, so you would think it would feature
fairly prominently in the ads.


From noel at igrin.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 19:11:51 2010
From: noel at igrin.co.nz (Noel & Di)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 06:11:51 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>

Did I miss something or is this not the beginning of the post>
If your card records other multiplexes, then it works OK. 

Take a look at this thread
http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=16160

Good Luck!
Noel Claydon

Pshem Kowalczyk wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After a few weeks of struggling with my Nova-500-TD I came to accept
> the fact that there is no way I can get TVONE to be recorded properly.
> Since the other multiplexes work well I'm planning to install another
> tuner.
> I have no more PCI slots left, so the only option is USB.  I looked at
> AVerMedia AVerTV DVB-T Volar (but apparently the aerial connector is
> not that great), Pinnacle PCTV NanoStick DVB-T and the Hauppage
> nova-500-t stick (I'm not too sure if I want another Hauppage in my
> box). What do you use in that space? Do you have any particularly good
> or bad experience with any USB DVB-T cards?
>
> kind regards
> Pshem
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>   



From noel at igrin.co.nz  Thu Apr 22 19:17:58 2010
From: noel at igrin.co.nz (Noel & Di)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 06:17:58 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] SSD versus rotational HD pricing
In-Reply-To: <t2tc676777d1004200249m350ead68g29055848eaf2dfb2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <h2p24b589d91004182048xa32d6662m3e5d4273ef3bb1bc@mail.gmail.com>	<1271649714.25930.35.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<m2k52bd4a781004182111ufe9641a5vf45b0fcb7bb0ed8c@mail.gmail.com>	<1271653511.25930.88.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<k2v52bd4a781004182330q7194f968n56f6e059218aabdc@mail.gmail.com>	<1271707367.28785.8.camel@navakl003.cs.navman.com>	<s2w24b589d91004191819l758f0689r7ba0eebe9348d0c5@mail.gmail.com>	<1271733977.2204.16.camel@big-dog.acs.lan>	<54jqs59rtgmo429mg38kvjcbl3nu1hfe1b@4ax.com>	<h2w24b589d91004200043p42d8499ane3fd9d0f8dc48060@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2tc676777d1004200249m350ead68g29055848eaf2dfb2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BD092D6.1020904@igrin.co.nz>

Well, with a service life more than 100 years (MTTF=1,500,000 h) she 
won't be able to complain when it breaks down!

Solor Vox wrote:
> Come on guys, surely we all want 1TB SSD like this:
>
> http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000C59-1257770618
>
> $7,179.99 USD, but hey, it does 1.4GB/s read and 1.2GB/s writes with
> 1GB cache. O.O
>
> So what if it's only $7/GB.  Lets see what the wife says to that. :)
>
> On 20 April 2010 19:43, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Daniel was talking about 1TB SSD drives.
>>
>> According to pricespy the best price for a 2TB is $199 - 10 cents a gigabyte. I kind of wish I'd ripped all my CDs to flac instead of mp3 now...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steve
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtvnz mailing list
>> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
>> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
>> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>>
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>   



From pshem.k at gmail.com  Thu Apr 22 21:45:07 2010
From: pshem.k at gmail.com (Pshem Kowalczyk)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 08:45:07 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>
Message-ID: <y2k20fe625b1004221345m7763a4fei467c6c6885062eb4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks for that thread. I don't think that 'diversity/dual-tuner'
switch works under linux. I wonder what the default setting might be.

On a separate note - it looks like only TVONE is affected, even on the
same multiplex. On Wed I've recorded two shows (from TVONE and TVNZ6)
and the TVONE is corrupted whilst the other one is not. Last night
I've recorded multiple streams again and none of them was corrupted.
So far the only difference was in the alleged 'HD-ness' of the signal
(i.e. those on Wed didn't have the HD sign, but those yesterday -
did). The issue seems to occur periodically, around 2 past the hour
and then around 32 past the hour. I've checked cron - nothing there.
I've started running dstat with logging to a file to capture if there
is anything happening at that time (so far - nothing special).

I get signal on both inputs (using external splitter) of about 72-74%,
the same if I only use ANT1, only ANT2 causes drop on the first tuner
to about 40%. From what I've gathered so far I don't think it's not an
issue with the input signal.

kind regards
Pshem


On 23 April 2010 06:11, Noel & Di <noel at igrin.co.nz> wrote:
> Did I miss something or is this not the beginning of the post>
> If your card records other multiplexes, then it works OK.
>
> Take a look at this thread
> http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=16160
>
> Good Luck!
> Noel Claydon
>


From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Fri Apr 23 02:41:41 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 13:41:41 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <y2k20fe625b1004221345m7763a4fei467c6c6885062eb4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>
	<y2k20fe625b1004221345m7763a4fei467c6c6885062eb4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 08:45:07 +1200, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Thanks for that thread. I don't think that 'diversity/dual-tuner'
>switch works under linux. I wonder what the default setting might be.
>
>On a separate note - it looks like only TVONE is affected, even on the
>same multiplex. On Wed I've recorded two shows (from TVONE and TVNZ6)
>and the TVONE is corrupted whilst the other one is not. Last night
>I've recorded multiple streams again and none of them was corrupted.
>So far the only difference was in the alleged 'HD-ness' of the signal
>(i.e. those on Wed didn't have the HD sign, but those yesterday -
>did). The issue seems to occur periodically, around 2 past the hour
>and then around 32 past the hour. I've checked cron - nothing there.
>I've started running dstat with logging to a file to capture if there
>is anything happening at that time (so far - nothing special).
>
>I get signal on both inputs (using external splitter) of about 72-74%,
>the same if I only use ANT1, only ANT2 causes drop on the first tuner
>to about 40%. From what I've gathered so far I don't think it's not an
>issue with the input signal.
>
>kind regards
>Pshem

It is extremely unlikely that a reception problem would affect TV One
only and not all the other channels on the same multiplex.  A
multiplex is just a stream of data packets with different ID numbers
on them.  Recording one channel is done by selecting the packets with
the right ID numbers out of that stream.  So any reception problems
with a multiplex *must* affect all channels on that multiplex.  If
your problem really is only affecting TV One, then it would likely be
a playback problem with 720p files, and that should also affect TV2
the same way.  The other channels on the TVNZ multiplex are 576p.
Playback problems are often characterised by the problem happening in
a different place in the file each time you play it.  Recording
problems will always be seen in the same place if a file is played
back multiple times.

An old rule of thumb comes to mind here.  When in doubt, suspect the
cable.  Is it possible one of your aerial cable connections is
intermittent?  So sometimes it is not getting enough signal to receive
the TVNZ multiplex OK?

BTW When I heard about this "diversity" feature, I had a thought about
how it might be done, and what I came up with is using both tuners
tuned to the same multiplex at the same time, then have the software
check for bad packets from one tuner and look and see if the same
packet was good on the other tuner.  That is a standard way of doing
diversity in communications channels, and normally results in a much
lower error rate even when both channels are a bit iffy, as long as
the two channels come via different paths (in this case, that would
mean different aerials, preferably pointed at different transmitters
if possible).  If it is done that way, then it is all software and
there is no actual hardware diversity switch.


From pshem.k at gmail.com  Fri Apr 23 04:12:45 2010
From: pshem.k at gmail.com (Pshem Kowalczyk)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:12:45 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>
	<y2k20fe625b1004221345m7763a4fei467c6c6885062eb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,


On 23 April 2010 13:41, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:

{cut}
>
> It is extremely unlikely that a reception problem would affect TV One
> only and not all the other channels on the same multiplex. ?A
> multiplex is just a stream of data packets with different ID numbers
> on them. ?Recording one channel is done by selecting the packets with
> the right ID numbers out of that stream. ?So any reception problems
> with a multiplex *must* affect all channels on that multiplex. ?If
> your problem really is only affecting TV One, then it would likely be
> a playback problem with 720p files, and that should also affect TV2
> the same way. ?The other channels on the TVNZ multiplex are 576p.
> Playback problems are often characterised by the problem happening in
> a different place in the file each time you play it. ?Recording
> problems will always be seen in the same place if a file is played
> back multiple times.

It is a recording issue. I just simply wonder if it's possible that
the card only has issues with capturing 720p, but not 1080 or 576.


> An old rule of thumb comes to mind here. ?When in doubt, suspect the
> cable. ?Is it possible one of your aerial cable connections is
> intermittent? ?So sometimes it is not getting enough signal to receive
> the TVNZ multiplex OK?

I was thinking about that, but there is somewhat disturbing regularity
to the issue - (like every 30mins or so) but again - TVNZ6 records
fine from the same tuner, during the same time.

> BTW When I heard about this "diversity" feature, I had a thought about
> how it might be done, and what I came up with is using both tuners
> tuned to the same multiplex at the same time, then have the software
> check for bad packets from one tuner and look and see if the same
> packet was good on the other tuner. ?That is a standard way of doing
> diversity in communications channels, and normally results in a much
> lower error rate even when both channels are a bit iffy, as long as
> the two channels come via different paths (in this case, that would
> mean different aerials, preferably pointed at different transmitters
> if possible). ?If it is done that way, then it is all software and
> there is no actual hardware diversity switch.

Thx for that explanation, it sheds some light onto the issue.

kind regards
Pshem


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Fri Apr 23 04:25:16 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:25:16 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>
	<y2k20fe625b1004221345m7763a4fei467c6c6885062eb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>
	<z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <s2i24b589d91004222025p1235ab73t6772de79200b6bcf@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Pshem Kowalczyk <pshem.k at gmail.com> wrote:

> It is a recording issue. I just simply wonder if it's possible that
> the card only has issues with capturing 720p, but not 1080 or 576.
>

Anything is possible but I can't see how. DVB cards don't generally know or
care about the payload at all - they are actually much more like network
devices than analogue capture cards. I guess you've played the recordings
with other software to confirm it's a problem with the recordings?

Cheers,
Steve
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From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Fri Apr 23 11:03:10 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 22:03:10 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Use different tuner for adjacent recordings
In-Reply-To: <201004210830.30748.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
References: <4BB9A812.3030103@whitehouse.org.nz>	<l2k52bd4a781004072211vb7ae0110hfa735d03a413ec4e@mail.gmail.com>	<4BCD756D.4030900@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004210830.30748.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BD1705E.5040001@whitehouse.org.nz>

Thanks Tony/Steve for such great replies!

>> Can anybody think of an SQL statement that would replace all "Begin this
>> recording on time" and "End this recording on time" with 2 minutes and 5
>> minutes respectively?

For the archives, I did the following:
$ mythtv -u mythtv -p[password]
 > use mythconverg;
 > UPDATE record set startoffset = 2 , endoffset = 5 where recordid != 0;

And it seems to have worked perfectly!

Regards,

Aaron


From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Fri Apr 23 12:22:27 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 23:22:27 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
Message-ID: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>

I note the subject now being advertised - for all people who have got their EPG licked into shape....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C42_%28TV_channel%29


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Fri Apr 23 22:40:19 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 09:40:19 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
In-Reply-To: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
References: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <z2g52bd4a781004231440v2d5aacb9sfe2faa5747d38797@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> I note the subject now being advertised - for all people who have got their EPG licked into shape....
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C42_%28TV_channel%29
>

I wonder what sort of epg a 24/7 music channel with no presenters could have?

Of course  if they have programmes like "reggae hour" I can see the
point of an epg, otherwise what will it be saying?


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Fri Apr 23 22:42:21 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 09:42:21 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
In-Reply-To: <z2g52bd4a781004231440v2d5aacb9sfe2faa5747d38797@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
	<z2g52bd4a781004231440v2d5aacb9sfe2faa5747d38797@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <l2q52bd4a781004231442gc19f9c65x154d8293b01720@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>> I note the subject now being advertised - for all people who have got their EPG licked into shape....
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C42_%28TV_channel%29
>>
>
> I wonder what sort of epg a 24/7 music channel with no presenters could have?
>
> Of course ?if they have programmes like "reggae hour" I can see the
> point of an epg, otherwise what will it be saying?
>

lyngsat says there is a 'c42 promo' already.


From jonathan.hoskin at gmail.com  Fri Apr 23 22:54:13 2010
From: jonathan.hoskin at gmail.com (Jonathan Hoskin)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 09:54:13 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
In-Reply-To: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
References: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <t2y289da1ea1004231454p3c0a7347of8ff4c1cc76a12c8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> I note the subject now being advertised - for all people who have got their
> EPG licked into shape....
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C42_%28TV_channel%29
>

I wonder if NZ actually needed yet another music TV channel. I also wonder
if, like C4, it will have a playlist set to "repeat all".
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From criggie at criggie.dyndns.org  Fri Apr 23 22:59:52 2010
From: criggie at criggie.dyndns.org (criggie at criggie.dyndns.org)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 09:59:52 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
In-Reply-To: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
References: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <4BD21858.8080500@criggie.dyndns.org>

Tortise wrote:
> I note the subject now being advertised - for all people who have got their EPG licked into shape....
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C42_%28TV_channel%29

Woot.  I'm falling over with enthusiasm.

Seriously though... I guess its like TV3+1 where they're using up some 
bandwidth they lease rather than risk losing it in a reallocation?
No presenters and no content specific to the channel means the only real 
cost to mediaworks is the copyright fees for broadcasting the music videos.



-- 
Criggie

http://criggie.dyndns.org/


From james6.0 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 23 23:16:13 2010
From: james6.0 at gmail.com (James Gray)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:16:13 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
In-Reply-To: <4BD21858.8080500@criggie.dyndns.org>
References: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
	<4BD21858.8080500@criggie.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <r2t3fb9fda51004231516s9a3e456frecc8a9a9055a667c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 9:59 AM,  <criggie at criggie.dyndns.org> wrote:
> Tortise wrote:
>> I note the subject now being advertised - for all people who have got their EPG licked into shape....
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C42_%28TV_channel%29
>
> Woot. ?I'm falling over with enthusiasm.
>
> Seriously though... I guess its like TV3+1 where they're using up some
> bandwidth they lease rather than risk losing it in a reallocation?
> No presenters and no content specific to the channel means the only real
> cost to mediaworks is the copyright fees for broadcasting the music videos.
>
Well, not even that. If I recall correctly, music videos are free for
broadcasters, as they give the music more exposure. I believe at some
point the record industry tried to demand money for broadcasting, and
broadcasters simply stopped playing them... This didn't last very
long. I tried to find some info, but google isn't being helpful today.

>
>
> --
> Criggie
>
> http://criggie.dyndns.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>


From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Fri Apr 23 23:18:02 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:18:02 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
References: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
	<z2g52bd4a781004231440v2d5aacb9sfe2faa5747d38797@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9A4F308BB1494AC685D0F26726814627@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Rout" <nick.rout at gmail.com>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May


> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>> I note the subject now being advertised - for all people who have got their EPG licked into shape....
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C42_%28TV_channel%29
>>
>
> I wonder what sort of epg a 24/7 music channel with no presenters could have?
>
> Of course  if they have programmes like "reggae hour" I can see the
> point of an epg, otherwise what will it be saying?
>

Yes, no doubt the details will become available in due course.  I'd be surprised if there was not some form of summary EPG broken 
down to the hour or so.

Be nice if they emulated the Concert programme details down to the track and time....  (I've only seen that in the Listener though) 
That would be cool, it would also challenge the mythweb width settings, all recordings would be "..."   I doubt we'll need to worry 
about that though! 



From jfpn at clearfield.com  Sat Apr 24 00:39:15 2010
From: jfpn at clearfield.com (Jean-Francois Pirus)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 11:39:15 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
In-Reply-To: <z2g52bd4a781004231440v2d5aacb9sfe2faa5747d38797@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
	<z2g52bd4a781004231440v2d5aacb9sfe2faa5747d38797@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BD22FA3.4030903@clearfield.com>


FYI: It showed up on the satellite on the 16th

C42:12483:h:0:22500:531:674:1940


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Francois Pirus     <jfp at clearfield.com>           Technical Manager
Phone (+64-9)  358 2081                          Clearfield Software Ltd
Fax   (+64-9)  358 2083                    1st Floor 8-10 Whitaker Place
Mob   (+64-21) 640 779                P O Box 3901 Auckland, New Zealand
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Sat Apr 24 01:19:12 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 12:19:12 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May
References: <0ED1A720F5F44EFA96074AB3F1AA4C16@dp2000xp>
	<z2g52bd4a781004231440v2d5aacb9sfe2faa5747d38797@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BD22FA3.4030903@clearfield.com>
Message-ID: <D2EA0325F3234066B963851E88EAA51C@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jean-Francois Pirus" <jfpn at clearfield.com>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Freeview Channel C42 coming 1 May


> 
> FYI: It showed up on the satellite on the 16th
> 
> C42:12483:h:0:22500:531:674:1940
> 

It is also on DVB-T also:

SCANNING: 706000000 (eu-bcast:50)
LOCK: t8qam64 (ss=91 snq=95 seq=100)
TSID: 0x001D
PROGRAM 1300: 3 TV3
PROGRAM 1301: 4 C4
PROGRAM 1302: 8 TV3 PLUS1
PROGRAM 1303: 9 C42

(from hdhomerun)  An image saying 1 May and rap are currently broadcast....


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Sun Apr 25 03:49:02 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:49:02 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Low volume of DVB-T recordings
Message-ID: <4BD3AD9E.2060302@whitehouse.org.nz>

Hello all,

I find that a lot of the DVB-T recordings are really quiet. I have the 
computer volume 100% and MythTV at 100%. Other recordings and videos are 
fine, but the DVB-T recordings are just a shade quiet.

I know that DVB-T files are already encoded at a set volume, so the only 
thing that I can think of is transcoding them or similar.

Has anybody else noticed/dealt with this problem?

Regards,

Aaron


From ross.jemima at gmail.com  Sun Apr 25 04:02:21 2010
From: ross.jemima at gmail.com (Ross and Jemima Knudsen)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:02:21 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>	<y2k20fe625b1004221345m7763a4fei467c6c6885062eb4@mail.gmail.com>	<d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>
	<z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BD3B0BD.2060100@gmail.com>

On 23/04/2010 3:12 p.m., Pshem Kowalczyk wrote:
> I was thinking about that, but there is somewhat disturbing regularity
> to the issue - (like every 30mins or so) but again - TVNZ6 records
> fine from the same tuner, during the same time.
>    
Sounds like a scheduling issue.  Is it every half hour on the half 
hour?  If so there might be shows stopping/starting which might be 
causing issues for the entire multiplex/tuner.  When I watch tvnz 6 live 
(pretty much the only live tv we watch - for the kids) there are a lot 
of short programs, as each program starts/ends (according to the EPG) 
there is a few seconds of screen corruption.  I assume its because Myth 
creates a new file for each show and drops packets or isn't able to do 
recording and playback when all that is going on (combined 
backend-frontend system).




From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Sun Apr 25 04:10:07 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:10:07 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>
	<y2k20fe625b1004221345m7763a4fei467c6c6885062eb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>
	<z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BD3B0BD.2060100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4AD9478C87A4371ACA8404B274D5950@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ross and Jemima Knudsen" <ross.jemima at gmail.com>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device


> On 23/04/2010 3:12 p.m., Pshem Kowalczyk wrote:
>> I was thinking about that, but there is somewhat disturbing regularity
>> to the issue - (like every 30mins or so) but again - TVNZ6 records
>> fine from the same tuner, during the same time.
>>    
> Sounds like a scheduling issue.  Is it every half hour on the half 
> hour?  If so there might be shows stopping/starting which might be 
> causing issues for the entire multiplex/tuner.  When I watch tvnz 6 live 
> (pretty much the only live tv we watch - for the kids) there are a lot 
> of short programs, as each program starts/ends (according to the EPG) 
> there is a few seconds of screen corruption.  I assume its because Myth 
> creates a new file for each show and drops packets or isn't able to do 
> recording and playback when all that is going on (combined 
> backend-frontend system).
> 
> 

Do you think the newly accepted bug report at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8296 could be the issue(s)?


From jonathan.hoskin at gmail.com  Sun Apr 25 04:17:57 2010
From: jonathan.hoskin at gmail.com (Jonathan Hoskin)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:17:57 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Low volume of DVB-T recordings
In-Reply-To: <4BD3AD9E.2060302@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BD3AD9E.2060302@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <q2n289da1ea1004242017r363cc3e5nc152d4902f111150@mail.gmail.com>

The Mythtvnz mailing list archives have discussions about volume. Like this
one:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/421261

For some users TV3 has a lower volume by default because Myth is preferring
the multichannel AC3 track instead of the AAC track. I have bound a key on
my remote to the plus sign "+", which selects the next audio track (AAC).

Are recordings on other channels quiet as well?

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Aaron Whitehouse
<lists at whitehouse.org.nz>wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I find that a lot of the DVB-T recordings are really quiet. I have the
> computer volume 100% and MythTV at 100%. Other recordings and videos are
> fine, but the DVB-T recordings are just a shade quiet.
>
> I know that DVB-T files are already encoded at a set volume, so the only
> thing that I can think of is transcoding them or similar.
>
> Has anybody else noticed/dealt with this problem?
>
> Regards,
>
> Aaron
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Sun Apr 25 04:25:10 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:25:10 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] dual vertical / hroizontal satellite
Message-ID: <y2w52bd4a781004242025x9be96f8bv40e64e1d1fc8e0a7@mail.gmail.com>

I guess to get sbs and not interfere with freeview I guess I need a
dual lnb  - does that mean I need two cables from sat dish to the
backend?


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Sun Apr 25 09:50:56 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 20:50:56 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Low volume of DVB-T recordings
In-Reply-To: <q2n289da1ea1004242017r363cc3e5nc152d4902f111150@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4BD3AD9E.2060302@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<q2n289da1ea1004242017r363cc3e5nc152d4902f111150@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BD40270.4080304@whitehouse.org.nz>

Jonathan Hoskin wrote:
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/421261
> 
> For some users TV3 has a lower volume by default because Myth is 
> preferring the multichannel AC3 track instead of the AAC track. 
> 
> Are recordings on other channels quiet as well?

Ahh... thanks. No, that seems to be the answer. I hadn't realised that 
it was limited to AC3 recordings, though I did suspect it was only TV3.

 > I have
 > bound a key on my remote to the plus sign "+", which selects the next
 > audio track (AAC).

Thanks, good idea. I'll make it the "VolumeUp" key, as we don't change 
the PC volume and it should make more sense to those in the household 
less interested in audio formats! It seems a bit of a dirty hack, so 
hopefully they fix it fairly soon.

Thanks for such a quick (and helpful) reply!

Regards,

Aaron


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Sun Apr 25 10:41:48 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:41:48 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <iibir51vjhi1vbv8m9ns4g28itsgq21cdv@4ax.com>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>	<201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>
	<iibir51vjhi1vbv8m9ns4g28itsgq21cdv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4BD40E5C.8080701@whitehouse.org.nz>

>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:25:22 Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
>>> Mythbuntu started stalling for 1-3 minutes at a time, with the hard disk 
>>> light on solidly and nothing else working. The system would be virtually 
>>> unresponsive, but would slowly crawl to a terminal etc. 

It seems that, after all of that, it was a hardware issue. I have 
replaced the hard drive (a WD Green 1TB) with a spare one that I had and 
all is working really well. It's a pity that I can't get the hours back, 
but I'm really glad to have found and solved the problem.

That drive was itself a warranty replacement because the first one 
didn't work past 10GB. It doesn't leave me with a lot of love for WD. 
For anyone else out there, there are specific ranges of drives designed 
for 24/7 video recording called "AV" for WD and "SV" for Seagate.

It was interesting to me that SMART didn't show anything.

Thanks everyone for your help!

Regards,

Aaron


From phill at getresults.co.nz  Sun Apr 25 10:56:51 2010
From: phill at getresults.co.nz (Phill Coxon)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:56:51 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BD40E5C.8080701@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>
	<iibir51vjhi1vbv8m9ns4g28itsgq21cdv@4ax.com>
	<4BD40E5C.8080701@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <1272189411.9419.49.camel@raidmax>

On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 21:41 +1200, Aaron Whitehouse wrote:

> It seems that, after all of that, it was a hardware issue. I have 
> replaced the hard drive (a WD Green 1TB) with a spare one that I had and 
> all is working really well. It's a pity that I can't get the hours back, 
> but I'm really glad to have found and solved the problem.

I'm a bit late into the discussion here but I think I can tell you
exactly what the problem is as I've just struck something very similar.

Take a look at this link:

http://www.greengecko.co.nz/node/21

"WD Green disks are formatted with 4096 byte blocks, not the usual 512.
While this shouldn't be a problem, it doesn't report this fact properly.
Also, if partitions aren't actually created on a 4k boundary, then
performance slows to a crawl."

It's possible to recreate the partitions on the new WD drives with 4k
boundaries and the performance jumps back to normal. Follow the links
back to the WD forums and read the discussion there. 


Here's another link to help identify & tweak HD performance:

http://strugglers.net/wiki/Linux_performance_tuning


Hope that helps. 





From tony.sauri at gmail.com  Sun Apr 25 12:33:18 2010
From: tony.sauri at gmail.com (Tony Sauri)
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 23:33:18 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>
	<z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201004252333.41962.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>

On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:12, Pshem Kowalczyk wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
Just a thought.

Is there any chance your problem is hard drive related?

Refer this thread:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/430344


Regards

Tony Sauri


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Sun Apr 25 13:13:59 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 00:13:59 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <1272189411.9419.49.camel@raidmax>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>
	<iibir51vjhi1vbv8m9ns4g28itsgq21cdv@4ax.com>
	<4BD40E5C.8080701@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<1272189411.9419.49.camel@raidmax>
Message-ID: <10FE96B3-3686-4134-90A9-161D84E72FA7@openmedia.co.nz>


On 25/04/2010, at 9:56 PM, Phill Coxon wrote:

> On Sun, 2010-04-25 at 21:41 +1200, Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> 
>> It seems that, after all of that, it was a hardware issue. I have 
>> replaced the hard drive (a WD Green 1TB) with a spare one that I had and 
>> all is working really well. It's a pity that I can't get the hours back, 
>> but I'm really glad to have found and solved the problem.
> 
> I'm a bit late into the discussion here but I think I can tell you
> exactly what the problem is as I've just struck something very similar.
> 
> Take a look at this link:
> 
> http://www.greengecko.co.nz/node/21
> 
> "WD Green disks are formatted with 4096 byte blocks, not the usual 512.
> While this shouldn't be a problem, it doesn't report this fact properly.
> Also, if partitions aren't actually created on a 4k boundary, then
> performance slows to a crawl."
> 
> 

Currently only the 2TB models have 4096 byte blocks so this is unlikely.

HD / DMA issues and things like commflag can cause problems.

Also what motherboard chipset do you have. There was an issue where selected combinations of cards/chipsets could cause data corruption or i/o throughput issues.

Steve


Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz

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From noel at igrin.co.nz  Sun Apr 25 19:36:14 2010
From: noel at igrin.co.nz (Noel & Di)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:36:14 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] dual vertical / hroizontal satellite
In-Reply-To: <y2w52bd4a781004242025x9be96f8bv40e64e1d1fc8e0a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <y2w52bd4a781004242025x9be96f8bv40e64e1d1fc8e0a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BD48B9E.5090605@igrin.co.nz>

Nick Rout wrote:
> I guess to get sbs and not interfere with freeview I guess I need a
> dual lnb  - does that mean I need two cables from sat dish to the
> backend?
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>   
Hi Nick
Sure does! Most LNB polarity is controlled by voltage, some by tone.  
The voltage controlled LNB will default to the highest voltage on the 
line - which is V polarity.  Tone polarity switching commutes the LNBs 
other active element, so same result - you end up with only the V 
polarity mux.  There is twinax - a dual coax which is the bees knees for 
this situation.
Noel.



From steve at greengecko.co.nz  Sun Apr 25 19:56:40 2010
From: steve at greengecko.co.nz (Steve Holdoway)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:56:40 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <10FE96B3-3686-4134-90A9-161D84E72FA7@openmedia.co.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>
	<iibir51vjhi1vbv8m9ns4g28itsgq21cdv@4ax.com>
	<4BD40E5C.8080701@whitehouse.org.nz> <1272189411.9419.49.camel@raidmax>
	<10FE96B3-3686-4134-90A9-161D84E72FA7@openmedia.co.nz>
Message-ID: <1272221800.1428.7.camel@steve-laptop>

On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 00:13 +1200, Steven Ellis wrote:

> > 
> > Take a look at this link:
> > 
> > http://www.greengecko.co.nz/node/21
> > 
> > "WD Green disks are formatted with 4096 byte blocks, not the usual
> > 512.
> > While this shouldn't be a problem, it doesn't report this fact
> > properly.
> > Also, if partitions aren't actually created on a 4k boundary, then
> > performance slows to a crawl."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Currently only the 2TB models have 4096 byte blocks so this is
> unlikely.

This statement is incorrect, as my example of a 1TB disk shows. It's (at
least - there may be others) the 'R' of EARS in the part number that
identifies disks with 4KB blocks.

Steve

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From criggie at criggie.dyndns.org  Sun Apr 25 20:38:30 2010
From: criggie at criggie.dyndns.org (criggie at criggie.dyndns.org)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 07:38:30 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BD40E5C.8080701@whitehouse.org.nz>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>	<201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>	<iibir51vjhi1vbv8m9ns4g28itsgq21cdv@4ax.com>
	<4BD40E5C.8080701@whitehouse.org.nz>
Message-ID: <4BD49A36.2070104@criggie.dyndns.org>

Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> It was interesting to me that SMART didn't show anything.

Not really - smart is like an airbag... good to have but not going to 
save you in itself.

I have a vague memory that google did an analysis of their hard drives 
and found that smart only predicted failure in under 1/3 of the cases.


-- 
Criggie

http://criggie.dyndns.org/


From hoiho.nz at gmail.com  Sun Apr 25 20:57:52 2010
From: hoiho.nz at gmail.com (Tony Sauri)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 07:57:52 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <1272221800.1428.7.camel@steve-laptop>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<10FE96B3-3686-4134-90A9-161D84E72FA7@openmedia.co.nz>
	<1272221800.1428.7.camel@steve-laptop>
Message-ID: <201004260758.15768.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>

On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:56, Steve Holdoway wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 00:13 +1200, Steven Ellis wrote:
> > > Take a look at this link:
> > >
> > > http://www.greengecko.co.nz/node/21
> > >
> > > "WD Green disks are formatted with 4096 byte blocks, not the usual
> > > 512.
> > > While this shouldn't be a problem, it doesn't report this fact
> > > properly.
> > > Also, if partitions aren't actually created on a 4k boundary, then
> > > performance slows to a crawl."
> >
> > Currently only the 2TB models have 4096 byte blocks so this is
> > unlikely.
>
> This statement is incorrect, as my example of a 1TB disk shows. It's (at
> least - there may be others) the 'R' of EARS in the part number that
> identifies disks with 4KB blocks.
>
> Steve

This document seems to confirm your understanding:
http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701229.pdf

8<----------8<----------8<----------8<----------8<----------8<----------
Advanced Formatting
===================
Technology being adopted by WD and other drive manufacturers to increase
media format efficiencies, thus enabling larger drive capacities.
(WDxxEARS and WDxxxxAARS models only)
8<----------8<----------8<----------8<----------8<----------8<----------

Tony
Product Features


From pshem.k at gmail.com  Sun Apr 25 22:10:43 2010
From: pshem.k at gmail.com (Pshem Kowalczyk)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 09:10:43 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <C4AD9478C87A4371ACA8404B274D5950@dp2000xp>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4BD09167.9060705@igrin.co.nz>
	<y2k20fe625b1004221345m7763a4fei467c6c6885062eb4@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>
	<z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
	<4BD3B0BD.2060100@gmail.com>
	<C4AD9478C87A4371ACA8404B274D5950@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <o2h20fe625b1004251410hacc236ccja8d7bb1bd9b38fd9@mail.gmail.com>

On 25 April 2010 15:10, Tortise <tortise at paradise.net.nz> wrote:

{cut}
>>
>
> Do you think the newly accepted bug report at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8296 could be the issue(s)?


I don't think its directly the issue, since the problem occurs in
recordings as well. I do not believe the recordings get 'stitched'
from multiple chunks. So the only other possibility is interference
between the two tuners. I found an information somewhere that to avoid
that interference I should slightly (by 1kHz) move one of the tuners.
I've tried that but so far - no change.
I started to believe that it might be some sort of signal issue, just
720 is more susceptible then SD to it.

kind regards
Pshem


From pshem.k at gmail.com  Sun Apr 25 22:15:07 2010
From: pshem.k at gmail.com (Pshem Kowalczyk)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 09:15:07 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Good DVB-T USB capture device
In-Reply-To: <201004252333.41962.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
References: <r2s20fe625b1004211830y6187a77cg487b92c502def7e6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<d3q1t5p3tr0jglu5mv633ha10kf96ktfc8@4ax.com>
	<z2o20fe625b1004222012je76f4f52xe8ae1aa11fb2a872@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004252333.41962.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <y2k20fe625b1004251415lfcc1e35ao715fa556e0914c2c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I don't think is a harddrive issue. I actually used a separate one (1G
SATA)  that wasn't used for anything else at the time to do some
recordings - the issue remains.

kind regards
Pshem


On 25 April 2010 23:33, Tony Sauri <tony.sauri at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:12, Pshem Kowalczyk wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
> Just a thought.
>
> Is there any chance your problem is hard drive related?
>
> Refer this thread:
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/430344
>
>
> Regards
>
> Tony Sauri
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Sun Apr 25 23:04:31 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 10:04:31 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <201004260758.15768.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<10FE96B3-3686-4134-90A9-161D84E72FA7@openmedia.co.nz>
	<1272221800.1428.7.camel@steve-laptop>
	<201004260758.15768.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E6E14D54-9430-47BE-B6AA-43C4D3523A67@openmedia.co.nz>


On 26/04/2010, at 7:57 AM, Tony Sauri wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:56, Steve Holdoway wrote:
>> On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 00:13 +1200, Steven Ellis wrote:
>>>> Take a look at this link:
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.greengecko.co.nz/node/21
>>>> 
>>>> "WD Green disks are formatted with 4096 byte blocks, not the usual
>>>> 512.
>>>> While this shouldn't be a problem, it doesn't report this fact
>>>> properly.
>>>> Also, if partitions aren't actually created on a 4k boundary, then
>>>> performance slows to a crawl."
>>> 
>>> Currently only the 2TB models have 4096 byte blocks so this is
>>> unlikely.
>> 
>> This statement is incorrect, as my example of a 1TB disk shows. It's (at
>> least - there may be others) the 'R' of EARS in the part number that
>> identifies disks with 4KB blocks.
>> 
>> Steve
> 
> This document seems to confirm your understanding:
> http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701229.pdf
> 

Sorry I stand corrected. The WDxxEARS models with 64MB Cache all have 4K Block sizes. Picked up some 2TB disks the other week and could only get the older style through my suppliers, and none were even quoting on Sub 2TB EARS models.

Steve


Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz

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From stevehodge at gmail.com  Mon Apr 26 01:13:18 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:13:18 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] System freezes thrashing HDD
In-Reply-To: <4BD49A36.2070104@criggie.dyndns.org>
References: <4BB911D2.7050704@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<201004051151.07584.james@booths.net.nz>
	<iibir51vjhi1vbv8m9ns4g28itsgq21cdv@4ax.com>
	<4BD40E5C.8080701@whitehouse.org.nz>
	<4BD49A36.2070104@criggie.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <r2s24b589d91004251713y103481a7i8f46d4d534f92608@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:38 AM, <criggie at criggie.dyndns.org> wrote:

> Aaron Whitehouse wrote:
> > It was interesting to me that SMART didn't show anything.
>
> Not really - smart is like an airbag... good to have but not going to
> save you in itself.
>
> I have a vague memory that google did an analysis of their hard drives
> and found that smart only predicted failure in under 1/3 of the cases.
>

That paper, for anyone interested:
http://static.googleusercontent.com/external_content/untrusted_dlcp/labs.google.com/en//papers/disk_failures.pdf

On SMARTs use as a predictive tool it says:
"Out of all failed drives, over 56% of them have no count in any of the four
strong SMART signals, namely scan errors, reallocation count, offline
reallocation, and probational count. In other words, models based only on
those signals can never predict more than half of the failed drives. ...
even when we add all remaining SMART parameters (except temperature)
we still find that over 36% of all failed drives had zero counts on all
variables."

Scan errors are the best correlated SMART parameter to drive failure: "after
their first scan error, drives are 39 times more likely to fail within 60
days than drives with no such errors". Yet 70% of drives still survived 8
months after their first scan error.

Cheers,
Steve
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Mon Apr 26 23:15:52 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:15:52 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
Message-ID: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>

Hi all,

I now have a process which runs each day checking the listings and
seeing what is on for the next week.

I was wondering whether the list would be interested in getting a daily
summary email with new programs (by title) which have been added to the
EPG in the last 24 hours.

This would have a couple of uses;

* People can find new shows they want to record as they come on.

* Allow us as a crowd to catch programs which need a title replacement
so as not to mess up recording rules e.g. "Lost: The Final Season" to
"Lost" or "MasterChef New Zealand: The Grand Final" to "MasterChef New
Zealand" (I caught this one the other day as it happens).

On the other hand people might not want to increase the list noise with
a daily email.

Thoughts?

hads

P.S. It looks like C42 has now got guide data, one show each day.

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From mythtv at somepointinthefuture.co.nz  Mon Apr 26 23:20:45 2010
From: mythtv at somepointinthefuture.co.nz (Stuart Whelan)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:20:45 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <v2ufe25e3641004261520jba5ca410xf7f6b2caa099af00@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:
> I was wondering whether the list would be interested in getting a daily
> summary email with new programs (by title) which have been added to the
> EPG in the last 24 hours.

I think it is a good idea.

Everyone should have filters intelligent enough to delete/hide the
message if they do not want to see it.

Nice work.
Stuart.


From duncan.kennington at gmail.com  Mon Apr 26 23:43:48 2010
From: duncan.kennington at gmail.com (Duncan Kennington)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:43:48 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <v2ufe25e3641004261520jba5ca410xf7f6b2caa099af00@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
	<v2ufe25e3641004261520jba5ca410xf7f6b2caa099af00@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k2oddd8e1d71004261543q4ce660a7jc6ddea7e23cec758@mail.gmail.com>

On 27 April 2010 10:20, Stuart Whelan <mythtv at somepointinthefuture.co.nz>wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:
> > I was wondering whether the list would be interested in getting a daily
> > summary email with new programs (by title) which have been added to the
> > EPG in the last 24 hours.
>
> I think it is a good idea.
>
> Everyone should have filters intelligent enough to delete/hide the
> message if they do not want to see it.
>
>
I agree, this adds value to the community and as Stuart says, if you don't
want it, simply create a rule to delete it.

Thanks for your work on this Hads.
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From phillip.baird at gmail.com  Mon Apr 26 23:44:15 2010
From: phillip.baird at gmail.com (Phillip B)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:44:15 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <o2x53b5dc571004261544o3d12dab5x9d322b71f5e5d312@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:

> I was wondering whether the list would be interested in getting a daily
> summary email with new programs (by title) which have been added to the
> EPG in the last 24 hours.
>

Sounds interesting.

Is this process something we could run on our own backends?

/PhilB
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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Tue Apr 27 01:13:58 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:13:58 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <o2p52bd4a781004261713v3c735de1z227d537500d3f35b@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I now have a process which runs each day checking the listings and
> seeing what is on for the next week.
>
> I was wondering whether the list would be interested in getting a daily
> summary email with new programs (by title) which have been added to the
> EPG in the last 24 hours.
>
> This would have a couple of uses;
>
> * People can find new shows they want to record as they come on.
>
> * Allow us as a crowd to catch programs which need a title replacement
> so as not to mess up recording rules e.g. "Lost: The Final Season" to
> "Lost" or "MasterChef New Zealand: The Grand Final" to "MasterChef New
> Zealand" (I caught this one the other day as it happens).
>
> On the other hand people might not want to increase the list noise with
> a daily email.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> hads
>
> P.S. It looks like C42 has now got guide data, one show each day.

I wonder whether it would be better to create a separate list for this?

I have no problem with using the present list (at least on a trial
basis anyway), but wonder if a separate list would 'fine grain' it to
those who truly want it.


From jim at gonzul.net  Tue Apr 27 01:42:19 2010
From: jim at gonzul.net (Jim Cheetham)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:42:19 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <o2p52bd4a781004261713v3c735de1z227d537500d3f35b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
	<o2p52bd4a781004261713v3c735de1z227d537500d3f35b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <q2lf4cc59761004261742k27d28406paa5ec00df57c12bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have no problem with using the present list (at least on a trial
> basis anyway), but wonder if a separate list would 'fine grain' it to
> those who truly want it.

Another list is easy to set up, but runs the risk of being "unknown"
for new people coming along, and of course doubles the admin overhead
of getting it going.

There is a feature of the mailman software that I've never used,
topics, which might be ideal for this ...

"""
topics_enabled (topics): Should the topic filter be enabled or disabled?

The topic filter categorizes each incoming email message according to
regular expression filters you specify below. If the message's
Subject: or Keywords: header contains a match against a topic filter,
the message is logically placed into a topic bucket. Each user can
then choose to only receive messages from the mailing list for a
particular topic bucket (or buckets). Any message not categorized in a
topic bucket registered with the user is not delivered to the list.

Note that this feature only works with regular delivery, not digest delivery.

The body of the message can also be optionally scanned for Subject:
and Keywords: headers, as specified by the topics_bodylines_limit
configuration variable.
"""

I've set up a Topic called "EPG", looking for "Keywords: EPG" -- this
can be in the headers, or in the first 5 lines of the body. If you
want to see these, you need to individually subscribe to the EPG topic
via http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/options/mythtvnz (you will need
your list password to log in here of course) (sadly, I don't think I
can set it for you ...)

-jim


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Tue Apr 27 04:12:44 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:12:44 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <46911.60.234.49.2.1272337964.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


On Tue, April 27, 2010 10:15 am, Hadley Rich wrote:
>
> P.S. It looks like C42 has now got guide data, one show each day.
>

Yes it isn't looking like something I'll be setting the PVR to record ;)


--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 27 04:14:45 2010
From: killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:14:45 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
Message-ID: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>

Can any body recommend a dual tuner dvb-t pci-e ?

Cheers

Jason Taylor

-- 
"Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
pointless. " - Calven


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Tue Apr 27 04:26:16 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:26:16 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <q2lf4cc59761004261742k27d28406paa5ec00df57c12bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
	<o2p52bd4a781004261713v3c735de1z227d537500d3f35b@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2lf4cc59761004261742k27d28406paa5ec00df57c12bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u2s52bd4a781004262026sa871c160j74039f2b5e9313c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Jim Cheetham <jim at gonzul.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have no problem with using the present list (at least on a trial
>> basis anyway), but wonder if a separate list would 'fine grain' it to
>> those who truly want it.
>
> Another list is easy to set up, but runs the risk of being "unknown"
> for new people coming along, and of course doubles the admin overhead
> of getting it going.

good points.

>
> There is a feature of the mailman software that I've never used,
> topics, which might be ideal for this ...
>
> """
> topics_enabled (topics): Should the topic filter be enabled or disabled?
>
> The topic filter categorizes each incoming email message according to
> regular expression filters you specify below. If the message's
> Subject: or Keywords: header contains a match against a topic filter,
> the message is logically placed into a topic bucket. Each user can
> then choose to only receive messages from the mailing list for a
> particular topic bucket (or buckets). Any message not categorized in a
> topic bucket registered with the user is not delivered to the list.
>
> Note that this feature only works with regular delivery, not digest delivery.
>
> The body of the message can also be optionally scanned for Subject:
> and Keywords: headers, as specified by the topics_bodylines_limit
> configuration variable.
> """
>
> I've set up a Topic called "EPG", looking for "Keywords: EPG" -- this
> can be in the headers, or in the first 5 lines of the body. If you
> want to see these, you need to individually subscribe to the EPG topic
> via http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/options/mythtvnz (you will need
> your list password to log in here of course) (sadly, I don't think I
> can set it for you ...)

Sounds good Jim, thanks. Just to clarify, you have to subscribe to EPG
messages, AND click "Yes" in the next box to get your normal list
subscription too.


From mark.dereeper at gmail.com  Tue Apr 27 05:06:30 2010
From: mark.dereeper at gmail.com (Mark de Reeper)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:06:30 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <w2nf9a802be1004262106q36959282mb59ec29684639d6c@mail.gmail.com>

On 27 April 2010 15:14, Jason Taylor <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can any body recommend a dual tuner dvb-t pci-e ?
>

Not pci-e I know but a HDHomerun has 2 dvb-t tuners and just works over the
net, been working great for me.

Mark
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From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Tue Apr 27 05:20:57 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:20:57 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <msoct5tfttev16lk3idqg02hcigoo63llo@4ax.com>

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:14:45 +1200, you wrote:

>Can any body recommend a dual tuner dvb-t pci-e ?
>
>Cheers
>
>Jason Taylor

There is only limited support so far for PCIe DVB devices, I'm afraid.
You might be lucky to find a supported dual DVB-T.  And it may need a
later version of things than is currently supported.

I am having problems getting my new TeVii S470 PCIe DVB-S2 card to
work - if I install the drivers from their site, it seems to install a
full new version of V4L which is using a newer V4L API version than
MythTV 0.22 supports (5.1 versus 5.0).  This seems to make all my
existing DVB-T tuners stop working under MythTV, although they do
still work with Kaffeine.  I am hoping that MythTV 0.23 will fix this,
but I am having other problems getting Mythbuntu 10.4 RC working (the
new video drivers do not seem to like my having an old Nvidia 6150 GPU
on my motherboard as well as the 8600 GS that I am actually using).

So if you do find a dual DVB-T PCIe card that says it has Linux
support, check it out very carefully.  It still may not work until you
are on a newer kernel and newer MythTV version.


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Tue Apr 27 05:38:29 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:38:29 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <q2lf4cc59761004261742k27d28406paa5ec00df57c12bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
	<o2p52bd4a781004261713v3c735de1z227d537500d3f35b@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2lf4cc59761004261742k27d28406paa5ec00df57c12bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <y2v24b589d91004262138x39d81baxc4668102717d923f@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Jim Cheetham <jim at gonzul.net> wrote:

> I've set up a Topic called "EPG", looking for "Keywords: EPG" -- this
> can be in the headers, or in the first 5 lines of the body. If you
> want to see these, you need to individually subscribe to the EPG topic
> via http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/options/mythtvnz (you will need
> your list password to log in here of course) (sadly, I don't think I
> can set it for you ...)
>

If it's putting mail with "EPG" in the subject line in the EPG topic it's
going to get a lot of false positives. By my count there have been 11
threads since the start of the year with "EPG" in the subject line. Anyone
who doesn't elect to get the EPG topic is going to miss quite a bit of
regular discussion. Any chance it could look for something more specific
like "EPG New Programs"?

Cheers,
Steve
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From killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 27 05:51:32 2010
From: killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:51:32 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <msoct5tfttev16lk3idqg02hcigoo63llo@4ax.com>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
	<msoct5tfttev16lk3idqg02hcigoo63llo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m2r94dd8f6f1004262151n2993079dpb607b098eb67dc06@mail.gmail.com>

> So if you do find a dual DVB-T PCIe card that says it has Linux
> support, check it out very carefully. ?It still may not work until you
> are on a newer kernel and newer MythTV version.

Ok so pci-e == wait

What about standard pci ?

-- 
"Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
pointless. " - Calven


From duncan.kennington at gmail.com  Tue Apr 27 06:00:41 2010
From: duncan.kennington at gmail.com (Duncan Kennington)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 17:00:41 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <m2r94dd8f6f1004262151n2993079dpb607b098eb67dc06@mail.gmail.com>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
	<msoct5tfttev16lk3idqg02hcigoo63llo@4ax.com>
	<m2r94dd8f6f1004262151n2993079dpb607b098eb67dc06@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <s2oddd8e1d71004262200w3cd12187oe40c47ea62dc64a6@mail.gmail.com>

On 27 April 2010 16:51, Jason Taylor <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com> wrote:

> > So if you do find a dual DVB-T PCIe card that says it has Linux
> > support, check it out very carefully.  It still may not work until you
> > are on a newer kernel and newer MythTV version.
>
> Ok so pci-e == wait
>
> What about standard pci ?
>

I got one of these and it "just worked".

http://ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=373799

This is on Mythbuntu 9.10 and 10.04 RC.
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From paul at kcbbs.gen.nz  Tue Apr 27 06:36:18 2010
From: paul at kcbbs.gen.nz (Paul Kendall)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 17:36:18 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <s2oddd8e1d71004262200w3cd12187oe40c47ea62dc64a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
	<m2r94dd8f6f1004262151n2993079dpb607b098eb67dc06@mail.gmail.com>
	<s2oddd8e1d71004262200w3cd12187oe40c47ea62dc64a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201004271736.19274.paul@kcbbs.gen.nz>

> On 27 April 2010 16:51, Jason Taylor <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > So if you do find a dual DVB-T PCIe card that says it has Linux
> > > support, check it out very carefully.  It still may not work until you
> > > are on a newer kernel and newer MythTV version.
> >
> > Ok so pci-e == wait
> >
> > What about standard pci ?
>
I use a HVR-2250 and just had to build the v4l drivers. Then it was all good!



From ross.jemima at gmail.com  Tue Apr 27 07:06:10 2010
From: ross.jemima at gmail.com (Ross and Jemima Knudsen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:06:10 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <201004271736.19274.paul@kcbbs.gen.nz>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>	<m2r94dd8f6f1004262151n2993079dpb607b098eb67dc06@mail.gmail.com>	<s2oddd8e1d71004262200w3cd12187oe40c47ea62dc64a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004271736.19274.paul@kcbbs.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <4BD67ED2.8000503@gmail.com>

Paul Kendall wrote:
>> On 27 April 2010 16:51, Jason Taylor <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> So if you do find a dual DVB-T PCIe card that says it has Linux
>>>> support, check it out very carefully.  It still may not work until you
>>>> are on a newer kernel and newer MythTV version.
>>> Ok so pci-e == wait
>>>
>>> What about standard pci ?
> I use a HVR-2250 and just had to build the v4l drivers. Then it was all good!

Don't the HVR 2200's work with Linux now?  I was thinking about getting 
one...


From paul at kcbbs.gen.nz  Tue Apr 27 07:42:05 2010
From: paul at kcbbs.gen.nz (Paul Kendall)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:42:05 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <4BD67ED2.8000503@gmail.com>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004271736.19274.paul@kcbbs.gen.nz> <4BD67ED2.8000503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201004271842.05983.paul@kcbbs.gen.nz>

> Paul Kendall wrote:
> >> On 27 April 2010 16:51, Jason Taylor <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> So if you do find a dual DVB-T PCIe card that says it has Linux
> >>>> support, check it out very carefully.  It still may not work until you
> >>>> are on a newer kernel and newer MythTV version.
> >>>
> >>> Ok so pci-e == wait
> >>>
> >>> What about standard pci ?
> >
> > I use a HVR-2250 and just had to build the v4l drivers. Then it was all
> > good!
>
> Don't the HVR 2200's work with Linux now?  I was thinking about getting
> one...
>
Yeah, they work fine.




From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Tue Apr 27 07:45:51 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:45:51 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <s2oddd8e1d71004262200w3cd12187oe40c47ea62dc64a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
	<msoct5tfttev16lk3idqg02hcigoo63llo@4ax.com>
	<m2r94dd8f6f1004262151n2993079dpb607b098eb67dc06@mail.gmail.com>
	<s2oddd8e1d71004262200w3cd12187oe40c47ea62dc64a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <al1dt5t1mgbtgt0v0sslsva10mbcqqcm1d@4ax.com>

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 17:00:41 +1200, you wrote:

>On 27 April 2010 16:51, Jason Taylor <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > So if you do find a dual DVB-T PCIe card that says it has Linux
>> > support, check it out very carefully.  It still may not work until you
>> > are on a newer kernel and newer MythTV version.
>>
>> Ok so pci-e == wait
>>
>> What about standard pci ?
>>
>
>I got one of these and it "just worked".
>
>http://ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=373799
>
>This is on Mythbuntu 9.10 and 10.04 RC.

Yes, I have one of those and it has been good.  But what is delivered
now is actually a Nova TD-500.  The old version in that picture is no
longer made.  The new one has two aerial inputs for its "diversity"
function.  I found that I had occasional recording glitches until I
used a splitter and gave it two aerial inputs.  Since then the
performance has been excellent.  Both versions work fine with current
kernel/V4L.  There was one other version made, only for a short time,
and mostly delivered in the UK only.  It does not work with Linux, so
a little care is needed when getting second hand ones of these.  New
stock is all the new TD-500 version.


From david at thistledown.co.nz  Tue Apr 27 09:29:47 2010
From: david at thistledown.co.nz (David Lowe)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:29:47 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <y2v24b589d91004262138x39d81baxc4668102717d923f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
	<o2p52bd4a781004261713v3c735de1z227d537500d3f35b@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2lf4cc59761004261742k27d28406paa5ec00df57c12bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<y2v24b589d91004262138x39d81baxc4668102717d923f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u2h5bc0decc1004270129nc498a986se5ea2e2d345fa14d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Jim Cheetham <jim at gonzul.net> wrote:
>
>> I've set up a Topic called "EPG", looking for "Keywords: EPG" -- this
>> can be in the headers, or in the first 5 lines of the body. If you
>> want to see these, you need to individually subscribe to the EPG topic
>> via http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/options/mythtvnz (you will need
>> your list password to log in here of course) (sadly, I don't think I
>> can set it for you ...)
>>
>
>
I think if you select the topic 'EPG' you also have to say 'yes' to the next
question "*Do you want to receive messages that do not match any topic
filter?". Mine was set to 'No' which I presume was the default.

- David
*
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Tue Apr 27 09:42:01 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:42:01 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <q2lf4cc59761004261742k27d28406paa5ec00df57c12bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
	<o2p52bd4a781004261713v3c735de1z227d537500d3f35b@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2lf4cc59761004261742k27d28406paa5ec00df57c12bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1272357721.16475.11.camel@sodium>

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 12:42 +1200, Jim Cheetham wrote:
> Another list is easy to set up, but runs the risk of being "unknown"
> for new people coming along, and of course doubles the admin overhead
> of getting it going.
> 
> There is a feature of the mailman software that I've never used,
> topics, which might be ideal for this ... 

Thanks Jim, interesting feature that I didn't know about.

I see a some people for and some against which is understandable.

I've been thinking some more and perhaps a web feed would be a better
option, that way people subscribe to it specifically. It won't have as
much exposure which isn't as good for the crowd catching replacements
needed but will still be useful.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From hads at nice.net.nz  Tue Apr 27 11:26:19 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 22:26:19 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] New program notifications
In-Reply-To: <o2x53b5dc571004261544o3d12dab5x9d322b71f5e5d312@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1272320152.10654.10.camel@sodium>
	<o2x53b5dc571004261544o3d12dab5x9d322b71f5e5d312@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1272363979.16475.24.camel@sodium>

On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 10:44 +1200, Phillip B wrote:
> Sounds interesting.
> 
> Is this process something we could run on our own backends? 

Not currently - it's tied in to a database I've been building of program
episode information and the times they were on.

I'm building a history of what has been on in the hopes of better
augmenting future data and possibly predicting the future.

I guess I could pull out the code that does the new program checks and
create another tool but it's not high on my list right now.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Tue Apr 27 21:35:49 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 08:35:49 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B4E6901-26BE-40C5-B51C-C067BCA425BB@openmedia.co.nz>


On 27/04/2010, at 3:14 PM, Jason Taylor wrote:

> Can any body recommend a dual tuner dvb-t pci-e ?

Hauppauge HVR-2200 has proven to work well in all of my tests, and is well priced.


> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jason Taylor
> 
> -- 
> "Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
> pointless. " - Calven
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz

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From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Wed Apr 28 03:26:34 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:26:34 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] Core i5/i7 and Software decode of H.264 freeview|HD
Message-ID: <39053.60.234.49.2.1272421594.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


Any one here tried software playback of H.264 1080i freeview|HD content on
the new core i intel platform?

Just wondering for a software only solution if there is a suitable intel
motherboard/cpu combo as an alternative to an NVidia Cards.

Steve

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From solorvox at gmail.com  Thu Apr 29 02:31:15 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:31:15 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to Tony's initial direction, I've written a script that
converts "rb-download" MHEG data to xmltv file for mythtv EPG.

Requirements, rb-download, bash, gawk, sed, and DVB-T tuner.

What works:  title, description, channel, start/stop times, rating
(AO,PGR,G), captions, and hd quality.  The conversion is very fast,
less than a second for all seven days of listings.  I've validated it
against xmltv.dtd and XML.

The script is about a 120 lines, so I don't want to post it here.  But
if you're interested, just send me an email.

Cheers,
sV


From killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 29 02:41:37 2010
From: killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:41:37 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <i2i94dd8f6f1004281841uf80aefafic1519f6386def664@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 April 2010 13:31, Solor Vox <solorvox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks to Tony's initial direction, I've written a script that
> converts "rb-download" MHEG data to xmltv file for mythtv EPG.
>
> Requirements, rb-download, bash, gawk, sed, and DVB-T tuner.
>
> What works: ?title, description, channel, start/stop times, rating
> (AO,PGR,G), captions, and hd quality. ?The conversion is very fast,
> less than a second for all seven days of listings. ?I've validated it
> against xmltv.dtd and XML.
>
> The script is about a 120 lines, so I don't want to post it here. ?But
> if you're interested, just send me an email.

Nice

bzr, git, svn ?

-- 
"Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
pointless. " - Calven


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Thu Apr 29 02:42:12 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:42:12 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Solor Vox <solorvox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks to Tony's initial direction, I've written a script that
> converts "rb-download" MHEG data to xmltv file for mythtv EPG.
>
> Requirements, rb-download, bash, gawk, sed, and DVB-T tuner.
>
> What works: ?title, description, channel, start/stop times, rating
> (AO,PGR,G), captions, and hd quality. ?The conversion is very fast,
> less than a second for all seven days of listings. ?I've validated it
> against xmltv.dtd and XML.
>
> The script is about a 120 lines, so I don't want to post it here. ?But
> if you're interested, just send me an email.

you are welcome to send it to the list as an attachment, I doubt it
will be over the list max of 40k, but if it is I will clear it, using
my admin hat :)


From solorvox at gmail.com  Thu Apr 29 04:51:22 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:51:22 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>

A bit overkill for a sourceforge project, but maybe others can
contribute and improve it.  I did some searching around and found a
few people who said it couldn't be done.  So by all means, feel free
to send me suggestions and changes.   It only took a few hours to
knock out so there has to be room for improvement.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/mheg2xmltv/

I'm considering adding channel id replacement code so it can be
swapped in for other grabbers without much fuss.  Right now all the
cid are what is transmitted in the MHEG data such as
crid://tvnz.co.nz.  This could be changed to tvnz1.freeviewnz.tv so it
matches other xmltv cid.

I've not looked at other grabber code, but there isn't much more data
in the MHEG stream.  So any other information, such as episode
numbers, categories, and cast/crew would have to be supplementary
applied to the xml file.

Cheers,
sV


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Thu Apr 29 05:56:59 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:56:59 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42555.60.234.49.2.1272517019.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


On Thu, April 29, 2010 3:51 pm, Solor Vox wrote:
> A bit overkill for a sourceforge project, but maybe others can
> contribute and improve it.  I did some searching around and found a
> few people who said it couldn't be done.  So by all means, feel free
> to send me suggestions and changes.   It only took a few hours to
> knock out so there has to be room for improvement.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/mheg2xmltv/
>
> I'm considering adding channel id replacement code so it can be
> swapped in for other grabbers without much fuss.  Right now all the
> cid are what is transmitted in the MHEG data such as
> crid://tvnz.co.nz.  This could be changed to tvnz1.freeviewnz.tv so it
> matches other xmltv cid.
>
> I've not looked at other grabber code, but there isn't much more data
> in the MHEG stream.  So any other information, such as episode
> numbers, categories, and cast/crew would have to be supplementary
> applied to the xml file.

Nice start. Thanks for the work.

One initial problem is using the cid's the data for TV One and TV 2 are
mapped to the same channel.

The list of unique cids is

crid://basefm.co.nz
crid://c42.co.nz
crid://c4tv.co.nz
crid://chinesetv8.co.nz
crid://kordiasolutions.com
crid://maoritelevision.com
crid://parliament.nz
crid://primetv.co.nz
crid://radionzconcert.co.nz
crid://radionznational.co.nz
crid://tv3.co.nz
crid://tv3plus1.co.nz
crid://tvcentral.co.nz
crid://tvnz.co.nz

You would probably be better creating a map based on the SID, eg

1200 = tvone
1201 = tv2

I do like the way you extract the HD, teletext etc from the image references.

Steve

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Thu Apr 29 06:00:12 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:00:12 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <42555.60.234.49.2.1272517020.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
	<42555.60.234.49.2.1272517020.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
Message-ID: <51182.60.234.49.2.1272517212.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


On Thu, April 29, 2010 4:57 pm, Steven Ellis wrote:
>
> On Thu, April 29, 2010 3:51 pm, Solor Vox wrote:
>> A bit overkill for a sourceforge project, but maybe others can
>> contribute and improve it.  I did some searching around and found a
>> few people who said it couldn't be done.  So by all means, feel free
>> to send me suggestions and changes.   It only took a few hours to
>> knock out so there has to be room for improvement.
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/mheg2xmltv/
>>
>> I'm considering adding channel id replacement code so it can be
>> swapped in for other grabbers without much fuss.  Right now all the
>> cid are what is transmitted in the MHEG data such as
>> crid://tvnz.co.nz.  This could be changed to tvnz1.freeviewnz.tv so it
>> matches other xmltv cid.
>>
>> I've not looked at other grabber code, but there isn't much more data
>> in the MHEG stream.  So any other information, such as episode
>> numbers, categories, and cast/crew would have to be supplementary
>> applied to the xml file.
>
> Nice start. Thanks for the work.
>
> One initial problem is using the cid's the data for TV One and TV 2 are
> mapped to the same channel.
>
> The list of unique cids is
>
> crid://basefm.co.nz
> crid://c42.co.nz
> crid://c4tv.co.nz
> crid://chinesetv8.co.nz
> crid://kordiasolutions.com
> crid://maoritelevision.com
> crid://parliament.nz
> crid://primetv.co.nz
> crid://radionzconcert.co.nz
> crid://radionznational.co.nz
> crid://tv3.co.nz
> crid://tv3plus1.co.nz
> crid://tvcentral.co.nz
> crid://tvnz.co.nz
>
> You would probably be better creating a map based on the SID, eg
>
> 1200 = tvone
> 1201 = tv2
>

Another thought. 3rd field in the file is the channel name. You just need
an array from channel name -> xmltv id.

You could also use this array to output the start data mapping channel id
to channel name.


Steve

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From solorvox at gmail.com  Thu Apr 29 06:59:00 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:59:00 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <51182.60.234.49.2.1272517212.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
	<42555.60.234.49.2.1272517020.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<51182.60.234.49.2.1272517212.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
Message-ID: <k2tc676777d1004282259ic6ae126fp3d7193286013014e@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 April 2010 17:00, Steven Ellis <steven at openmedia.co.nz> wrote:
>> Nice start. Thanks for the work.
>>
>> One initial problem is using the cid's the data for TV One and TV 2 are
>> mapped to the same channel.
>>
>> The list of unique cids is
>>
>> crid://basefm.co.nz
>> crid://c42.co.nz
>> crid://c4tv.co.nz
>> crid://chinesetv8.co.nz
>> crid://kordiasolutions.com
>> crid://maoritelevision.com
>> crid://parliament.nz
>> crid://primetv.co.nz
>> crid://radionzconcert.co.nz
>> crid://radionznational.co.nz
>> crid://tv3.co.nz
>> crid://tv3plus1.co.nz
>> crid://tvcentral.co.nz
>> crid://tvnz.co.nz
>>
>> You would probably be better creating a map based on the SID, eg
>>
>> 1200 = tvone
>> 1201 = tv2
>>
>
> Another thought. 3rd field in the file is the channel name. You just need
> an array from channel name -> xmltv id.
>
> You could also use this array to output the start data mapping channel id
> to channel name.
>
>
> Steve

Thanks Steve,

Seems that more then just tv1 and 2 were mapped, all 4 (1,2,6, and 7)
channels are mapped to the same crid in the MHEG stream.  I added 5
lines that seem to work well for me.  Updated the svn copy with the
fix.  Although I have been thinking about adding an array to remap all
crids so you wouldn't have to reconfigure mythtv.

sV


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Thu Apr 29 08:01:46 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 19:01:46 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <k2tc676777d1004282259ic6ae126fp3d7193286013014e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
	<42555.60.234.49.2.1272517020.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<51182.60.234.49.2.1272517212.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<k2tc676777d1004282259ic6ae126fp3d7193286013014e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>


On 29/04/2010, at 5:59 PM, Solor Vox wrote:

> On 29 April 2010 17:00, Steven Ellis <steven at openmedia.co.nz> wrote:
>>> Nice start. Thanks for the work.
>>> 
>>> One initial problem is using the cid's the data for TV One and TV 2 are
>>> mapped to the same channel.
>>> 
>>> The list of unique cids is
>>> 
>>> crid://basefm.co.nz
>>> crid://c42.co.nz
>>> crid://c4tv.co.nz
>>> crid://chinesetv8.co.nz
>>> crid://kordiasolutions.com
>>> crid://maoritelevision.com
>>> crid://parliament.nz
>>> crid://primetv.co.nz
>>> crid://radionzconcert.co.nz
>>> crid://radionznational.co.nz
>>> crid://tv3.co.nz
>>> crid://tv3plus1.co.nz
>>> crid://tvcentral.co.nz
>>> crid://tvnz.co.nz
>>> 
>>> You would probably be better creating a map based on the SID, eg
>>> 
>>> 1200 = tvone
>>> 1201 = tv2
>>> 
>> 
>> Another thought. 3rd field in the file is the channel name. You just need
>> an array from channel name -> xmltv id.
>> 
>> You could also use this array to output the start data mapping channel id
>> to channel name.
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
> 
> Thanks Steve,
> 
> Seems that more then just tv1 and 2 were mapped, all 4 (1,2,6, and 7)
> channels are mapped to the same crid in the MHEG stream.  I added 5
> lines that seem to work well for me.  Updated the svn copy with the
> fix.  Although I have been thinking about adding an array to remap all
> crids so you wouldn't have to reconfigure mythtv.
> 

Great. I'll do an SVN pull for a look at your changes.

Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz

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From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Thu Apr 29 10:09:52 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:09:52 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Best Dual tuner dvb-t pcie-e?
In-Reply-To: <9B4E6901-26BE-40C5-B51C-C067BCA425BB@openmedia.co.nz>
References: <t2i94dd8f6f1004262014g480027e7i4b19dcb8a8e9626a@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B4E6901-26BE-40C5-B51C-C067BCA425BB@openmedia.co.nz>
Message-ID: <4BD94CE0.9020600@whitehouse.org.nz>

Steven Ellis wrote:
> Hauppauge HVR-2200 has proven to work well in all of my tests, and is 
> well priced.

Note that it isn't quite straight-out-of-the-box -- I had to set the 
card options and manually download the firmware. Let me know if you 
would like more details.

Regards,

Aaron


From blmiller at slingshot.co.nz  Thu Apr 29 10:41:23 2010
From: blmiller at slingshot.co.nz (Brett Miller)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 21:41:23 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Core i5/i7 and Software decode of H.264 freeview|HD
In-Reply-To: <39053.60.234.49.2.1272421594.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
References: <39053.60.234.49.2.1272421594.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
Message-ID: <4BD95443.2040301@slingshot.co.nz>


i5-750 P55 chipset GTX260 GPU  1920x1200 DFP
Myth playback from separate backend. 1080i (House) without vpdau, 
analogue sound out.
One core
70% HighQuality
80% CPU++
another core jumping around 5 to 20%

With vdpau
all 4 cores about 5%

Don't know if the Ubuntu 9.10 system monitor program takes the 
CPU/mobo/bios power saving functions into account.

B.

On 28/04/2010 2:26 p.m., Steven Ellis wrote:
> Any one here tried software playback of H.264 1080i freeview|HD content on
> the new core i intel platform?
>
> Just wondering for a software only solution if there is a suitable intel
> motherboard/cpu combo as an alternative to an NVidia Cards.
>
> Steve
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Steven Ellis - Technical Director
> OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
> email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
> website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2837 - Release Date: 04/26/10 18:27:00
>
>    
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From solorvox at gmail.com  Thu Apr 29 12:55:52 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:55:52 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
	<42555.60.234.49.2.1272517020.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<51182.60.234.49.2.1272517212.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<k2tc676777d1004282259ic6ae126fp3d7193286013014e@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
Message-ID: <n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>

Just added some more code... Added support for xmltv channel ID
remapping, now defaults to *.freeviewnz.tv.  Added command line
arguments to override default values and license text.  Also updated
the release download link.

Let me know of anything else that would be helpful.  I'm thinking that
there might be a way to pull data from the tuners directly from
mythtv.  Since mythtv has built-in rb-browser to view the MHEG stream
while watching TV.  So maybe I can hook directly in and not need
exclusive use of the tuner.

sV


From hoiho.nz at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 02:21:50 2010
From: hoiho.nz at gmail.com (Tony Sauri)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:21:50 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>

On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:55, Solor Vox wrote:
.
>
> Let me know of anything else that would be helpful.  I'm thinking that
> there might be a way to pull data from the tuners directly from
> mythtv.  Since mythtv has built-in rb-browser to view the MHEG stream
> while watching TV.  So maybe I can hook directly in and not need
> exclusive use of the tuner.
>

a)Solor Vox  I like the work you have been doing thanks for picking this up.

b)  Not an enhancement request yet, but I hope this will be food for thought 
that may develop into something useful.

I have been analysing the mhegdata and have developed a theory that there is a 
series code built in.

If we look at the data for two episodes of Coronation Street (below)

20
	70200
	73800
	1
	19:30
	49
	/10167750
	Coronation Street
	Jed demands money from Tony; Peter is determined to make a
	change; and Steve and Becky risk a kiss under the mistletoe.
	2
	/pngs/ear.png
	/pngs/pgr.png
	1
	50
	/1008390                    <<<<<<<<<<<  
	Coronation Street
	No synopsis available
	0


18
	70200
	73800
	1
	19:30
	49
	/10167752
	Coronation Street
	Tony deals with Jed; Steve and Becky are happy in a winter
	wonderland; and Molly is guilty after banishing Pam.
	2
	/pngs/ear.png
	/pngs/pgr.png
	1
	50
	/1008390                    <<<<<<<<<<<  
	Coronation Street
	No synopsis available
	0

The fields I have indicated with <<<<<<<<<<<  do not vary and it seems 
sensible to me that the Freeview PVR uses this for it's "series record" 
function.

Now the challenge is how to use this intelligence to create a series 
scheduling capability in MythTV.

My first thought was "Series 1008390" into the synopsis field  but then there 
is a need to set up a keyword search to actually set the scheduling rule.

There are also other kludges like creating a new sql table and running a 
regular cron to automate the scheduling.

Any other ideas out there?

Regards

Tony


From hads at nice.net.nz  Fri Apr 30 03:00:29 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:00:29 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>

On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 13:21 +1200, Tony Sauri wrote:
> The fields I have indicated with <<<<<<<<<<<  do not vary and it seems
> sensible to me that the Freeview PVR uses this for it's "series
> record" function.

Nice spotting.

> Now the challenge is how to use this intelligence to create a series 
> scheduling capability in MythTV. 

In the absence of handling this in myth (I believe only schedules direct
users get actual seriesid support proper) it would be pretty trivial to
add a processor to xmltv-proc-nz to map those codes to a consistent
program title.

hads
-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From toby at np.co.nz  Fri Apr 30 03:06:06 2010
From: toby at np.co.nz (toby at np.co.nz)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 22:06:06 -0400
Subject: [mythtvnz] Moment of insanity
Message-ID: <380-220104530266538@M2W123.mail2web.com>


After 2 years of running my myth setup as solid as a rock, I had a moment
of insanity and decided to do a major upgrade.

I had been running Mythbuntu 8.04 with Myth 0.20. No reboots in over 6
months and the whole thing was running pretty sweet.

I decided I was getting a bit behind the times so made the leap, two ubuntu
major versions to 10.04 and all the way up to the latest stable + fixes
myth 23.

As far as upgrades go, it was pretty painless, sure everything broke, but
getting it all running again hasn't been too bad. Its not quite as stable
yet, but I think I'm getting there and its really only been a days work to
get it all running again.

I have quite a complex setup, I have one master backend and my friend (who
lives 1km away via a 24Mbps wifi link) is running a secondary backend. We
use cross mounted storage groups so that each of our recordings are stored
and streamed locally but we can still both access each others recordings.
All that is working fine and is much cleaner under 0.23. Clients are all
diskless and booting much faster as well but be warned, 10.04 drops support
for the gui based diskless configuration which was so sweet under 8.04. You
have to all the ltsp stuff by hand which is fine but a bit painful.

I have an outstanding nvidia driver issue on my main client but I'm sure I
will get this sorted. All my sky irblaster stuff still works and lirc seems
much easier to get running under 10.04 as well.

My only issue is that my PVR150 card keeps disappearing, the OS can see it,
but myth can't find it unless I go into mythtv-setup and exit out again and
then all of a sudden it springs into life with nothing of any note
appearing in any logs. Can anyone offer any suggestions as to what is going
on with this? Its been nearly 5 years since I installed and configured it
and it kind of just worked back then so I'm at a bit of a loss on it.

Cheers
Toby


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Fri Apr 30 03:19:54 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:19:54 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


On Fri, April 30, 2010 2:00 pm, Hadley Rich wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 13:21 +1200, Tony Sauri wrote:
>> The fields I have indicated with <<<<<<<<<<<  do not vary and it seems
>> sensible to me that the Freeview PVR uses this for it's "series
>> record" function.
>
> Nice spotting.
>
>> Now the challenge is how to use this intelligence to create a series
>> scheduling capability in MythTV.
>
> In the absence of handling this in myth (I believe only schedules direct
> users get actual seriesid support proper) it would be pretty trivial to
> add a processor to xmltv-proc-nz to map those codes to a consistent
> program title.
>

They are using the tvAnytime spec for encoding Series and Episode
information.

Steve

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 03:25:57 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:25:57 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Moment of insanity
In-Reply-To: <380-220104530266538@M2W123.mail2web.com>
References: <380-220104530266538@M2W123.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <v2j52bd4a781004291925p144a44e3u865f6752bfc788d5@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:06 PM, toby at np.co.nz <toby at np.co.nz> wrote:
>
> After 2 years of running my myth setup as solid as a rock, I had a moment
> of insanity and decided to do a major upgrade.
>
> I had been running Mythbuntu 8.04 with Myth 0.20. No reboots in over 6
> months and the whole thing was running pretty sweet.
>
> I decided I was getting a bit behind the times so made the leap, two ubuntu
> major versions to 10.04 and all the way up to the latest stable + fixes
> myth 23.
>
> As far as upgrades go, it was pretty painless, sure everything broke, but
> getting it all running again hasn't been too bad. Its not quite as stable
> yet, but I think I'm getting there and its really only been a days work to
> get it all running again.

I am contemplating doing an LTS->LTS upgrade on my backend, then
frontends to follow. What sort of problems did you have (other than
the ones you have listed, or that were peculiar to your wireless
linked backends setup)

>
> I have quite a complex setup, I have one master backend and my friend (who
> lives 1km away via a 24Mbps wifi link) is running a secondary backend. We
> use cross mounted storage groups so that each of our recordings are stored
> and streamed locally but we can still both access each others recordings.
> All that is working fine and is much cleaner under 0.23. Clients are all
> diskless and booting much faster as well but be warned, 10.04 drops support
> for the gui based diskless configuration which was so sweet under 8.04. You
> have to all the ltsp stuff by hand which is fine but a bit painful.
>
> I have an outstanding nvidia driver issue on my main client but I'm sure I
> will get this sorted. All my sky irblaster stuff still works and lirc seems
> much easier to get running under 10.04 as well.
>
> My only issue is that my PVR150 card keeps disappearing, the OS can see it,
> but myth can't find it unless I go into mythtv-setup and exit out again and
> then all of a sudden it springs into life with nothing of any note
> appearing in any logs. Can anyone offer any suggestions as to what is going
> on with this? Its been nearly 5 years since I installed and configured it
> and it kind of just worked back then so I'm at a bit of a loss on it.
>
> Cheers
> Toby
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?
> http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 03:31:24 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:31:24 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
Message-ID: <q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Steven Ellis <steven at openmedia.co.nz> wrote:
>
> On Fri, April 30, 2010 2:00 pm, Hadley Rich wrote:
>> On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 13:21 +1200, Tony Sauri wrote:
>>> The fields I have indicated with <<<<<<<<<<< ?do not vary and it seems
>>> sensible to me that the Freeview PVR uses this for it's "series
>>> record" function.
>>
>> Nice spotting.
>>
>>> Now the challenge is how to use this intelligence to create a series
>>> scheduling capability in MythTV.
>>
>> In the absence of handling this in myth (I believe only schedules direct
>> users get actual seriesid support proper) it would be pretty trivial to
>> add a processor to xmltv-proc-nz to map those codes to a consistent
>> program title.
>>
>
> They are using the tvAnytime spec for encoding Series and Episode
> information.

Clarify please? who is using tvanytime, freeview or schedules direct? or mythtv?


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Fri Apr 30 03:31:10 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:31:10 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
	<42555.60.234.49.2.1272517020.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<51182.60.234.49.2.1272517212.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<k2tc676777d1004282259ic6ae126fp3d7193286013014e@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43629.60.234.49.2.1272594670.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


On Thu, April 29, 2010 11:55 pm, Solor Vox wrote:
> Just added some more code... Added support for xmltv channel ID
> remapping, now defaults to *.freeviewnz.tv.  Added command line
> arguments to override default values and license text.  Also updated
> the release download link.
>
> Let me know of anything else that would be helpful.  I'm thinking that
> there might be a way to pull data from the tuners directly from
> mythtv.  Since mythtv has built-in rb-browser to view the MHEG stream
> while watching TV.  So maybe I can hook directly in and not need
> exclusive use of the tuner.
>

Nice work. Starting to look a lot better.

One request would be for the channel id and display name entries at the
start of the file to make it more xmltv compliant.

Also if you apply the following diff it will sort out the Kordia freeview
hd channel

*** mheg2xmltv.sh.orig	2010-04-30 14:26:29.000000000 +1200
--- mheg2xmltv.sh	2010-04-30 14:28:05.000000000 +1200
***************
*** 43,48 ****
--- 43,49 ----
  PRIME,prime.freeviewnz.tv
  ChineseTV8,ctv8.freeviewnz.tv
  tvCentral,tvcentral.freeviewnz.tv
+ Freeview | HD,freeviewhd.freeviewnz.tv
  RadioNZ National,rnz-national.freeviewnz.tv
  RadioNZ Concert,rnz-concert.freeviewnz.tv
  BaseFM,base-fm.freeviewnz.tv'


Steve

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From toby at np.co.nz  Fri Apr 30 04:01:25 2010
From: toby at np.co.nz (toby at np.co.nz)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:01:25 -0400
Subject: [mythtvnz] Moment of insanity
Message-ID: <380-2201045303125355@M2W105.mail2web.com>

>I am contemplating doing an LTS->LTS upgrade on my backend, then
>frontends to follow=2E What sort of problems did you have (other than
>the ones you have listed, or that were peculiar to your wireless
>linked backends setup)

- nvidia drivers did not work at native resolutions on clients with MX4000
cards (still outstanding)
- it broke all my tftp stuff for diskless, had to reinstall and reconfigure
- dvd drives not mounting (haven't investigated this much yet)
- epgsnoop broke, had to install some extra python stuff that seemed to go
away during the upgrade
- lirc needed to be reconfigured from scratch (irblaster for sky)
- nfs broke and needed some prodding to get it going again
- PVR150 keeps going away after a reboot (still outstanding)

Not too bad considering the scale of the upgrade
You will have to do your frontends at the same time as 0.23 is not
backwards compatible with previous versions.

Also, install the autobuilds and update to the latest 0.23 + fixes, myth
was not stable until I did that as 0.23 still has a large number of daily
fixes released.

The new myth gui is very nice!!!

Toby

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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 04:13:26 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:13:26 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Moment of insanity
In-Reply-To: <380-2201045303125355@M2W105.mail2web.com>
References: <380-2201045303125355@M2W105.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <y2w52bd4a781004292013p58b86df4w3d169aa5119e1e65@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:01 PM, toby at np.co.nz <toby at np.co.nz> wrote:
>>I am contemplating doing an LTS->LTS upgrade on my backend, then
>>frontends to follow=2E What sort of problems did you have (other than
>>the ones you have listed, or that were peculiar to your wireless
>>linked backends setup)
>
> - nvidia drivers did not work at native resolutions on clients with MX4000
> cards (still outstanding)

hopefully this won't affect my newer nvidia cards

> - it broke all my tftp stuff for diskless, had to reinstall and reconfigure

not using that

> - dvd drives not mounting (haven't investigated this much yet)

don't really do dvds

> - epgsnoop broke, had to install some extra python stuff that seemed to go
> away during the upgrade

don't use epgsnoop

> - lirc needed to be reconfigured from scratch (irblaster for sky)

OK

> - nfs broke and needed some prodding to get it going again

don't use it

> - PVR150 keeps going away after a reboot (still outstanding)
>

don't use my pvr150 any more.

> Not too bad considering the scale of the upgrade

sounds like I should be sweet!

> You will have to do your frontends at the same time as 0.23 is not
> backwards compatible with previous versions.
>

I know. The frontends have little on them compared to the backend,
basically mythtv, xbmc and damn all else. If I have to blow them away,
I will.

> Also, install the autobuilds and update to the latest 0.23 + fixes, myth
> was not stable until I did that as 0.23 still has a large number of daily
> fixes released.
>
> The new myth gui is very nice!!!

yeah I am presently stuck on 0.21. I'll see how time goes this weekend.


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Fri Apr 30 04:35:38 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:35:38 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>


On Fri, April 30, 2010 2:31 pm, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Steven Ellis <steven at openmedia.co.nz>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, April 30, 2010 2:00 pm, Hadley Rich wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 13:21 +1200, Tony Sauri wrote:
>>>> The fields I have indicated with <<<<<<<<<<< ?do not vary and it seems
>>>> sensible to me that the Freeview PVR uses this for it's "series
>>>> record" function.
>>>
>>> Nice spotting.
>>>
>>>> Now the challenge is how to use this intelligence to create a series
>>>> scheduling capability in MythTV.
>>>
>>> In the absence of handling this in myth (I believe only schedules
>>> direct
>>> users get actual seriesid support proper) it would be pretty trivial to
>>> add a processor to xmltv-proc-nz to map those codes to a consistent
>>> program title.
>>>
>>
>> They are using the tvAnytime spec for encoding Series and Episode
>> information.
>
> Clarify please? who is using tvanytime, freeview or schedules direct? or
> mythtv?
>
Sorry. freeview NZ, and also freeview in the UK, are using TV Anytime to
provide series link capability. The data is in the EIT and MHEG streams.

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 04:49:35 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:49:35 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
Message-ID: <l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Steven Ellis <steven at openmedia.co.nz>wrote:

> Sorry. freeview NZ, and also freeview in the UK, are using TV Anytime to
> provide series link capability. The data is in the EIT and MHEG streams.
>

Do you have any detail on the implementation? I had a look on the website
but ran into a bunch of broken links. Does the data include episode numbers?
Is the series id specific to the season or just to the program?

Cheers,
Steve
-------------- next part --------------
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From nick.rout at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 05:33:46 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:33:46 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <v2h52bd4a781004292133neca4b0aej4b4eeec05563b9e1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Steven Ellis <steven at openmedia.co.nz>
> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry. freeview NZ, and also freeview in the UK, are using TV Anytime to
>> provide series link capability. The data is in the EIT and MHEG streams.
>
> Do you have any detail on the implementation? I had a look on the website
> but ran into a bunch of broken links.

you need to read the Important Notice!

<quote>Depending on the settings of your firewall or proxy server, you
might experience problems accessing the documents on the FTP site of
the TV-Anytime Forum using the direct links provided on this website.
In some cases, the configuration of your browser may also prevent you
from opening the files.

If you do encouter problems, try accessing the documents on the FTP
server of the TV-Anytime Forum through either of the following links:

    * ftp://tva:tva at ftp.bbc.co.uk
    * ftp://tva:tva at ftp.bbc.co.uk/pub/

In case both of the above links won't work, you have to log on to the
FTP site using a FTP client (such as WSftp, CuteFTP, etc.) with
username 'tva' and password 'tva'.</quote>

But even then finding anything useful is hard work!

maybe this link is better:

http://www.etsi.org/website/technologies/tvanytime.aspx


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 05:45:27 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:45:27 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <v2h52bd4a781004292133neca4b0aej4b4eeec05563b9e1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<v2h52bd4a781004292133neca4b0aej4b4eeec05563b9e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <v2r24b589d91004292145hc14b560fr14ff30ee3753759d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Steven Ellis <steven at openmedia.co.nz>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry. freeview NZ, and also freeview in the UK, are using TV Anytime to
> >> provide series link capability. The data is in the EIT and MHEG streams.
> >
> > Do you have any detail on the implementation? I had a look on the website
> > but ran into a bunch of broken links.
>
> you need to read the Important Notice!
>
> <quote>Depending on the settings of your firewall or proxy server, you
> might experience problems accessing the documents on the FTP site of
> the TV-Anytime Forum using the direct links provided on this website.
> In some cases, the configuration of your browser may also prevent you
> from opening the files.
>

Sigh. My browser's fine. The problem would be the configuration of their
webserver.


> If you do encouter problems, try accessing the documents on the FTP
> server of the TV-Anytime Forum through either of the following links:
>
>    * ftp://tva:tva at ftp.bbc.co.uk
>    * ftp://tva:tva at ftp.bbc.co.uk/pub/
>
> In case both of the above links won't work, you have to log on to the
> FTP site using a FTP client (such as WSftp, CuteFTP, etc.) with
> username 'tva' and password 'tva'.</quote>
>
> But even then finding anything useful is hard work!
>

Hmm, do I trust a bunch of people who can't even configure a webserver
correctly to come up with a coherent technical standard?

Cheers,
Steve
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From hads at nice.net.nz  Fri Apr 30 05:48:16 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:48:16 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>

On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 15:49 +1200, Steve Hodge wrote:
> Do you have any detail on the implementation? I had a look on the
> website but ran into a bunch of broken links. Does the data include
> episode numbers? Is the series id specific to the season or just to
> the program?

Yeah, I'm interested too but finding out what it actually is seems to be
hard work.

hads
-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From stevehodge at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 06:07:51 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 17:07:51 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <z2s24b589d91004292207y5e55d8a3wf1c9528b3828b6c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:

> On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 15:49 +1200, Steve Hodge wrote:
> > Do you have any detail on the implementation? I had a look on the
> > website but ran into a bunch of broken links. Does the data include
> > episode numbers? Is the series id specific to the season or just to
> > the program?
>
> Yeah, I'm interested too but finding out what it actually is seems to be
> hard work.
>

Thanks to Nick's tip I did find some spec documents. There's a lot there
though and I couldn't immediately see anything relevant.

Cheers,
Steve
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From solorvox at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 06:09:18 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 17:09:18 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<2383AF22-9101-4897-A94F-18EF27917347@openmedia.co.nz>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>

Updated to 0.2.1,

Added code to provide a complete channel definition at the top of the
xmltv file as requested.  This includes channel icon support.


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 06:56:21 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 17:56:21 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Solor Vox <solorvox at gmail.com> wrote:

> From what I've read about tvanywhere, the crid RFC 4078 (
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4078 ), it appears that reference number
> Tony pointed out, would be added to the end of the crid URL to
> retrieve the show.
>
> So crid://tvnz.co.nz/12345678  would use tvnz.co.nz and lookup that
> reference "1234578"  for details.  I've done more digging around in
> the MHEG data and don't see any more plain text information.  So it
> looks like any further details must be from an outside source.  While
> I'm not opposed to using outside information, the main purpose was to
> use what is given and not rely on internet connections.
>

Looking at the example Tonu supplied:
20
       70200
       73800
       1
       19:30
       49
       /10167750
       Coronation Street
       Jed demands money from Tony; Peter is determined to make a
       change; and Steve and Becky risk a kiss under the mistletoe.
       2
       /pngs/ear.png
       /pngs/pgr.png
       1
       50
       /1008390                    <<<<<<<<<<<
       Coronation Street
       No synopsis available
       0

If "/1008390" is the CRID for the series, is " /10167750" the CRID for the
episode?

Cheers,
Steve
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From solorvox at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 07:22:36 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 18:22:36 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 April 2010 17:56, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:
> If "/1008390" is the CRID for the series, is " /10167750" the CRID for the
> episode?

Here is a reformatted dump from the data file for House episode:

28|73800|77400|1|20:30|49|/T284056|House|A high-school senior blacks
out during a school field trip and hallucinates repeatedly at the
hospital. Meanwhile, Taub complains about his personal life; and
Wilson tries to furnish his
condo.|1|/pngs/pgr.png|1|50|/30774|House|No synopsis available|0|

28 (show listing number, starts at 1 for each day)
73800 (start time in seconds from midnight)
77400 (end time in seconds)
1 (unknown)
20:30 (text start time)
49 (unknown, repeats on all entries, all channels)
/T284056 (series ID)
House (title of show)
A high-school ... (description)
1 (number of icons)
*n (/pngs/*.png icons per number above, for teletext/rating/etc)
50 (unknown)
/30744 (episode number, but just a guess)
House (seems to mirror show title, sometimes a longer version)
No synopsis... (text synopsis)
0 (unknown, almost always 0)

Now, at the start of each file is the crid://tvnz.co.nz base URL.  So
my understanding is that a MHEG STB + internet connection would do a
crid://tvnz.co.nz/T284056 to lookup House, then
crid://tvnz.co.nz/30744 for the episode.

Now it is possible that rb-download doesn't completely decode all the
data from the MHEG stream.  But that's all the info I have to work
with at the moment.

sV


From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Fri Apr 30 07:37:56 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 18:37:56 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Solor Vox" <solorvox at gmail.com>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG


> On 30 April 2010 17:56, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If "/1008390" is the CRID for the series, is " /10167750" the CRID for the
>> episode?
>
> Here is a reformatted dump from the data file for House episode:
>
> 28|73800|77400|1|20:30|49|/T284056|House|A high-school senior blacks
> out during a school field trip and hallucinates repeatedly at the
> hospital. Meanwhile, Taub complains about his personal life; and
> Wilson tries to furnish his
> condo.|1|/pngs/pgr.png|1|50|/30774|House|No synopsis available|0|
>
> 28 (show listing number, starts at 1 for each day)
> 73800 (start time in seconds from midnight)
> 77400 (end time in seconds)
> 1 (unknown)
> 20:30 (text start time)
> 49 (unknown, repeats on all entries, all channels)
> /T284056 (series ID)
> House (title of show)
> A high-school ... (description)
> 1 (number of icons)
> *n (/pngs/*.png icons per number above, for teletext/rating/etc)
> 50 (unknown)
> /30744 (episode number, but just a guess)
> House (seems to mirror show title, sometimes a longer version)
> No synopsis... (text synopsis)
> 0 (unknown, almost always 0)
>

50 is probably the channel.  If the only numbers in that slot are 48, 50 and 59 that would be pretty convincing.  (maybe that's my 
0.01% contribution?!) 



From tortise at paradise.net.nz  Fri Apr 30 08:01:56 2010
From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 19:01:56 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tortise" <tortise at paradise.net.nz>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz at lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG


>> Here is a reformatted dump from the data file for House episode:
>>
>> 28|73800|77400|1|20:30|49|/T284056|House|A high-school senior blacks
>> out during a school field trip and hallucinates repeatedly at the
>> hospital. Meanwhile, Taub complains about his personal life; and
>> Wilson tries to furnish his
>> condo.|1|/pngs/pgr.png|1|50|/30774|House|No synopsis available|0|
>>
>> 28 (show listing number, starts at 1 for each day)
>> 73800 (start time in seconds from midnight)
>> 77400 (end time in seconds)
>> 1 (unknown)
>> 20:30 (text start time)
>> 49 (unknown, repeats on all entries, all channels)
>> /T284056 (series ID)
>> House (title of show)
>> A high-school ... (description)
>> 1 (number of icons)
>> *n (/pngs/*.png icons per number above, for teletext/rating/etc)
>> 50 (unknown)
>> /30744 (episode number, but just a guess)
>> House (seems to mirror show title, sometimes a longer version)
>> No synopsis... (text synopsis)
>> 0 (unknown, almost always 0)
>>
>
> 50 is probably the channel.  If the only numbers in that slot are 48, 50 and 59 that would be pretty convincing.  (maybe that's my
> 0.01% contribution?!)
>

However 50 is not enough to define the channel, there would presumably also need to be some mux filter definition, however that's 
less obvious from the data?   However the 0 might represent 1300 or perhaps /30774 being adjacent to the 50 could be filter related? 
Another possible variable might be number of times previously screened? 



From solorvox at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 09:05:51 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 20:05:51 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>
	<8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>
Message-ID: <u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>

Just wanted to say, if you guys would prefer I can take this
discussion off-list.

After a bit more analyses, I got the two IDs swapped.  The first
number is episode or "event content reference id."  The second number
is the series ID.  They also very by channel.  Prime uses alpha
numeric strings "/SNZ10174274" for event id, but "/118728" for series
crid.  The tvanytime DVB protocol (120 page pdf) is a bit dry, but
seems to confirm that they designed the system in this way.


From stevehodge at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 09:21:47 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 20:21:47 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>
	<8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>
	<u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <q2y24b589d91004300121lb5f3ed61y1b3af299e705c839@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Solor Vox <solorvox at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just wanted to say, if you guys would prefer I can take this
> discussion off-list.
>
> After a bit more analyses, I got the two IDs swapped.  The first
> number is episode or "event content reference id."  The second number
> is the series ID.  They also very by channel.  Prime uses alpha
> numeric strings "/SNZ10174274" for event id, but "/118728" for series
> crid.  The tvanytime DVB protocol (120 page pdf) is a bit dry, but
> seems to confirm that they designed the system in this way.
>
> From what it appears, they use the content reference id so PVRs can
> record without being locked to a specific date/time.  The external
> crid url is for additional metadata (including adverts) to be
> downloaded.
>
> Unless there is more data that rb-download isn't giving us, I'd have
> to implement some type of supplementary metadata lookup.  That would
> then be used to populate the event in xmltv file.  That could mean a
> simple hash match for episode name -> series crid.  Or something more
> complex like internet master crid db.  I would think that you could
> share a master crid file/db since it would only change with new
> series.  Just some thoughts...
>

It'd be useful just having a reliable episode id even if it were completely
opaque if it could used for avoiding repeats.

Cheers,
Steve
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From solorvox at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 09:56:53 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 20:56:53 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <q2y24b589d91004300121lb5f3ed61y1b3af299e705c839@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>
	<8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>
	<u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2y24b589d91004300121lb5f3ed61y1b3af299e705c839@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2jc676777d1004300156t342fc11cke9ff19f4703d5028@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 April 2010 20:21, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:
> It'd be useful just having a reliable episode id even if it were completely
> opaque if it could used for avoiding repeats.
>

According to xmltv.dtd I could add event crid to <episode-num
system="dd_progid">string</episode-num>, which might solve repeats.
What do you guys think about a master show crid reference file?  I
wouldn't expect it to be too large as only series would be listed.

Thinking it would be something like:

show crid | Series Name | Categories        |
12345678| House            | Series,Drama   |
87654321| The Pacific    | Series,Drama   |
54123423| One News     | Tvshow,News  |

Having to stop and scan each event for a series crid match would slow
down execution dramatically.  But this could allow you to keep the
entire system "offline" and only update the crid db file every so
often.

sV


From nick.rout at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 09:57:54 2010
From: nick.rout at gmail.com (Nick Rout)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 20:57:54 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>
	<8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>
	<u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <u2x52bd4a781004300157qea33dec7i9b08608cd9c47d72@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Solor Vox <solorvox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Just wanted to say, if you guys would prefer I can take this
> discussion off-list.

no need, keep it public, and in the archives. Thats what open source
is all about.


From stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz  Fri Apr 30 10:19:02 2010
From: stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz (Stephen Worthington)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:19:02 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <v2r24b589d91004292145hc14b560fr14ff30ee3753759d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<v2h52bd4a781004292133neca4b0aej4b4eeec05563b9e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<v2r24b589d91004292145hc14b560fr14ff30ee3753759d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <227lt55hai19ah0qtf8hhh7sc655j8o7uj@4ax.com>

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:45:27 +1200, you wrote:

>On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Steve Hodge <stevehodge at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Steven Ellis <steven at openmedia.co.nz>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Sorry. freeview NZ, and also freeview in the UK, are using TV Anytime to
>> >> provide series link capability. The data is in the EIT and MHEG streams.
>> >
>> > Do you have any detail on the implementation? I had a look on the website
>> > but ran into a bunch of broken links.
>>
>> you need to read the Important Notice!
>>
>> <quote>Depending on the settings of your firewall or proxy server, you
>> might experience problems accessing the documents on the FTP site of
>> the TV-Anytime Forum using the direct links provided on this website.
>> In some cases, the configuration of your browser may also prevent you
>> from opening the files.
>>
>
>Sigh. My browser's fine. The problem would be the configuration of their
>webserver.

No, it is not a web server.  It is an FTP server, and it is not
misconfigured.  What you are up against here is the good old
active/passive FTP problem.  FTP servers do either active or passive
FTP protocol, or preferably both.  For some reason, web browsers do
not do active FTP.  Hence the need to use a real FTP client program
that will detect  active or passive and switch as necessary when the
FTP server only does one protocol.  There are problems with firewalls
with passive FTP also - your own firewall can make it fail to work
unless it actively looks into the packets to see if they are passive
FTP ones and opens the appropriate ports automatically.  For this
exact reason, I have my own FTP server set to only do active FTP - it
sends back a "502 Command not implemented" error response if passive
FTP is attempted, which should cause the FTP client to switch to
active FTP.  But web browsers seem to ignore errors like that and keep
trying to use passive FTP.

>
>> If you do encouter problems, try accessing the documents on the FTP
>> server of the TV-Anytime Forum through either of the following links:
>>
>>    * ftp://tva:tva at ftp.bbc.co.uk
>>    * ftp://tva:tva at ftp.bbc.co.uk/pub/
>>
>> In case both of the above links won't work, you have to log on to the
>> FTP site using a FTP client (such as WSftp, CuteFTP, etc.) with
>> username 'tva' and password 'tva'.</quote>
>>
>> But even then finding anything useful is hard work!
>>
>
>Hmm, do I trust a bunch of people who can't even configure a webserver
>correctly to come up with a coherent technical standard?
>
>Cheers,
>Steve


From hads at nice.net.nz  Fri Apr 30 10:39:54 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:39:54 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <m2jc676777d1004300156t342fc11cke9ff19f4703d5028@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>
	<8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>
	<u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2y24b589d91004300121lb5f3ed61y1b3af299e705c839@mail.gmail.com>
	<m2jc676777d1004300156t342fc11cke9ff19f4703d5028@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1272620394.20685.6.camel@sodium>

On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 20:56 +1200, Solor Vox wrote:
> According to xmltv.dtd I could add event crid to <episode-num
> system="dd_progid">string</episode-num>, which might solve repeats.
> What do you guys think about a master show crid reference file?  I
> wouldn't expect it to be too large as only series would be listed.
> 
> Thinking it would be something like:
> 
> show crid | Series Name | Categories        |
> 12345678| House            | Series,Drama   |
> 87654321| The Pacific    | Series,Drama   |
> 54123423| One News     | Tvshow,News  |
> 
> Having to stop and scan each event for a series crid match would slow
> down execution dramatically.  But this could allow you to keep the
> entire system "offline" and only update the crid db file every so
> often.

There's a JSON file of programs here;

http://nzepg.org/programs/+json

which it could be added to.

The dd_progid is not in the XMLTV DTD as far as I'm aware. I believe it
was added by datadirect people though it is used in myth.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 10:50:01 2010
From: killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:50:01 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p2j94dd8f6f1004300250jef043ed8gd3767fd4f77a8050@mail.gmail.com>

> crid://tvnz.co.nz/T284056 to lookup House, then
> crid://tvnz.co.nz/30744 for the episode.

Exciting stuff... if that episode number goes up by a set number each
week / episode.....

Do you have an example that happens daily... maybe Magnum PI I know
thats seems to be on almost every day...

30744
30745
30746
30747

we can dream...

-- 
"Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
pointless. " - Calven


From hads at nice.net.nz  Fri Apr 30 10:56:45 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:56:45 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <p2j94dd8f6f1004300250jef043ed8gd3767fd4f77a8050@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<n2vc676777d1004290455u8160069eo2cd582a71685a140@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<p2j94dd8f6f1004300250jef043ed8gd3767fd4f77a8050@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1272621405.20685.8.camel@sodium>

On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 21:50 +1200, Jason Taylor wrote:
> Exciting stuff... if that episode number goes up by a set number each
> week / episode.....
> 
> Do you have an example that happens daily... maybe Magnum PI I know
> thats seems to be on almost every day...
> 
> 30744
> 30745
> 30746
> 30747
> 
> we can dream...

http://nzepg.org/program/12440

It appears that they aren't necessarily showing Magnum P.I. strictly in
order though.

hads

-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From solorvox at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 11:01:19 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:01:19 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <p2j94dd8f6f1004300250jef043ed8gd3767fd4f77a8050@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<p2j94dd8f6f1004300250jef043ed8gd3767fd4f77a8050@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <k2pc676777d1004300301i5901da48td0da83880d83efd4@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 April 2010 21:50, Jason Taylor <killerkiwi2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Exciting stuff... if that episode number goes up by a set number each
> week / episode.....
>
> Do you have an example that happens daily... maybe Magnum PI I know
> thats seems to be on almost every day...
>
> 30744
> 30745
> 30746
> 30747
>
> we can dream...

I wrote a few scripts to help look at the data, here is a sample
output for searching for Magnum.  It spans multiple days and channels.

7|25200|28800|1|07:00|49|/T254984|Magnum, P.I.|'Forty'. About to turn
40, Magnum loses his lucky $2 bill and falls for a TV reporter who may
be connected to one of his cases.|1|/pngs/g.png|1|50|/29585|Magnum,
P.I.|No synopsis available|0|
8|28800|32400|1|08:00|49|/T254984|Magnum, P.I.|'Forty'. About to turn
40, Magnum loses his lucky $2 bill and falls for a TV reporter who may
be connected to one of his cases.|1|/pngs/g.png|1|50|/29585|Magnum,
P.I.|No synopsis available|0|
6|25200|28800|1|07:00|49|/T254986|Magnum, P.I.|'Out Of Sync'. Magnum's
plans for a romantic weekend are interrupted by a porno actress who
wants him to prove that a producer is making snuff
films.|1|/pngs/g.png|1|50|/29585|Magnum, P.I.|No synopsis available|0|
7|28800|32400|1|08:00|49|/T254986|Magnum, P.I.|'Out Of Sync'. Magnum's
plans for a romantic weekend are interrupted by a porno actress who
wants him to prove that a producer is making snuff
films.|1|/pngs/g.png|1|50|/29585|Magnum, P.I.|No synopsis available|0|
8|25200|28800|1|07:00|49|/T254982|Magnum, P.I.|'On The Fly'. Magnum's
buddy Mac impersonates Magnum while trying to blackmail a Mexican
crime lord.|1|/pngs/g.png|1|50|/29585|Magnum, P.I.|No synopsis
available|0|
10|28800|32400|1|08:00|49|/T254982|Magnum, P.I.|'On The Fly'. Magnum's
buddy Mac impersonates Magnum while trying to blackmail a Mexican
crime lord.|1|/pngs/g.png|1|50|/29585|Magnum, P.I.|No synopsis
available|0|
6|25200|28800|1|07:00|49|/T254981|Magnum, P.I.|'Murder By Night'. A
murder is the 1940s revolves around a cast of characters which
resemble Magnum.|1|/pngs/g.png|1|50|/29585|Magnum, P.I.|No synopsis
available|0|
7|28800|32400|1|08:00|49|/T254981|Magnum, P.I.|'Murder By Night'. A
murder is the 1940s revolves around a cast of characters which
resemble Magnum.|1|/pngs/g.png|1|50|/29585|Magnum, P.I.|No synopsis
available|0|

So yes, the show CRID and the event (episode) CRID are the same across
channels. (this is for both 1300 and 1302)  While that means nothing
to us, maybe myth will be able to use it in the xmltv  episode-num
using system="dd_progid".

sV


From lists at whitehouse.org.nz  Fri Apr 30 11:12:30 2010
From: lists at whitehouse.org.nz (Aaron Whitehouse)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:12:30 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] Moment of insanity
In-Reply-To: <380-220104530266538@M2W123.mail2web.com>
References: <380-220104530266538@M2W123.mail2web.com>
Message-ID: <4BDAAD0E.4090109@whitehouse.org.nz>

toby at np.co.nz wrote:
> My only issue is that my PVR150 card keeps disappearing, the OS can see it,
> but myth can't find it unless I go into mythtv-setup and exit out again and
> then all of a sudden it springs into life with nothing of any note
> appearing in any logs. 

All that I can think is that your backend is starting before your 
adapters are ready. If you can fix it with "sudo restart 
mythtv-backend", have a look here:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/556204
https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/182746

Regards,

Aaron


From solorvox at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 11:13:44 2010
From: solorvox at gmail.com (Solor Vox)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:13:44 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <1272620394.20685.6.camel@sodium>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>
	<8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>
	<u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2y24b589d91004300121lb5f3ed61y1b3af299e705c839@mail.gmail.com>
	<m2jc676777d1004300156t342fc11cke9ff19f4703d5028@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272620394.20685.6.camel@sodium>
Message-ID: <i2nc676777d1004300313o40ab4baemba351bbd120fdef2@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 April 2010 21:39, Hadley Rich <hads at nice.net.nz> wrote:
> There's a JSON file of programs here;
>
> http://nzepg.org/programs/+json
>
> which it could be added to.
>
> The dd_progid is not in the XMLTV DTD as far as I'm aware. I believe it
> was added by datadirect people though it is used in myth.

That json file doesn't match my data.  For example, I have Magnum as
29585, where as the json file shows 74380.  Others like Mythbusters I
have 103188 vs 73388.  Where did you get that data from?  Is it DVB-S?
 Might be different CRID numbers.

As for the dd_progid, I found it in their example file
http://wiki.xmltv.org/index.php/XMLTVFormat and not the DTD.  Guess
that is what happens when you have too many firefox tabs open.

sV


From hads at nice.net.nz  Fri Apr 30 11:18:08 2010
From: hads at nice.net.nz (Hadley Rich)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:18:08 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <i2nc676777d1004300313o40ab4baemba351bbd120fdef2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2p24b589d91004292256qbe8422k918b05f8152706e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<u2ic676777d1004292322nea29d298g9679ed828d58b1c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D1680BA8FA341A2A5410ADBE2AA63F8@dp2000xp>
	<8504AB7AFCE942909D6BE9A54235C132@dp2000xp>
	<u2yc676777d1004300105hf83473f6n604de1f48a6f7468@mail.gmail.com>
	<q2y24b589d91004300121lb5f3ed61y1b3af299e705c839@mail.gmail.com>
	<m2jc676777d1004300156t342fc11cke9ff19f4703d5028@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272620394.20685.6.camel@sodium>
	<i2nc676777d1004300313o40ab4baemba351bbd120fdef2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1272622688.20685.9.camel@sodium>

On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 22:13 +1200, Solor Vox wrote:
> That json file doesn't match my data.  For example, I have Magnum as
> 29585, where as the json file shows 74380.  Others like Mythbusters I
> have 103188 vs 73388.  Where did you get that data from?  Is it DVB-S?
>  Might be different CRID numbers. 

I didn't expect it to match, I said it could be added. The current
numbers in there are thetvdb series ids.

hads
-- 
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier



From stevehodge at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 11:28:19 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:28:19 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <227lt55hai19ah0qtf8hhh7sc655j8o7uj@4ax.com>
References: <201004301322.13397.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<v2h52bd4a781004292133neca4b0aej4b4eeec05563b9e1@mail.gmail.com>
	<v2r24b589d91004292145hc14b560fr14ff30ee3753759d@mail.gmail.com>
	<227lt55hai19ah0qtf8hhh7sc655j8o7uj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <l2q24b589d91004300328l173cb513u9fc7366a2a8f9500@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Stephen Worthington <
stephen_agent at jsw.gen.nz> wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:45:27 +1200, you wrote:
> >Sigh. My browser's fine. The problem would be the configuration of their
> >webserver.
>
> No, it is not a web server.  It is an FTP server, and it is not
> misconfigured.  What you are up against here is the good old
> active/passive FTP problem.  FTP servers do either active or passive
> FTP protocol, or preferably both.  For some reason, web browsers do
> not do active FTP.  Hence the need to use a real FTP client program
> that will detect  active or passive and switch as necessary when the
> FTP server only does one protocol.  There are problems with firewalls
> with passive FTP also - your own firewall can make it fail to work
> unless it actively looks into the packets to see if they are passive
> FTP ones and opens the appropriate ports automatically.  For this
> exact reason, I have my own FTP server set to only do active FTP - it
> sends back a "502 Command not implemented" error response if passive
> FTP is attempted, which should cause the FTP client to switch to
> active FTP.  But web browsers seem to ignore errors like that and keep
> trying to use passive FTP.
>

Good theory, but I was able to access the FTP site from my browser using the
link from Nick, so the browser wasn't the problem. The problem is actually
that the links on the website ftp://tva:tva at ftp.bbc.co.uk/pub/... somehow
get redirected to ftp://tva:tva at ftp.bbc.co.uk/pub/pub/... which doesn't
exist. The redirection appears to be occurring on their end - the server is
misconfigured.

Cheers,
Steve
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From stevehodge at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 11:41:57 2010
From: stevehodge at gmail.com (Steve Hodge)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:41:57 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <k2pc676777d1004300301i5901da48td0da83880d83efd4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272592829.11985.12.camel@sodium>
	<50997.60.234.49.2.1272593994.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<q2y52bd4a781004291931je696d3d9ke28678bdaad680d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<60560.60.234.49.2.1272598538.squirrel@webmail.stevencherie.net>
	<l2y24b589d91004292049k294fcf7cm171886d2334240ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<1272602896.14780.1.camel@sodium>
	<n2wc676777d1004292209jd073a339t6c5b60f6aa0389ff@mail.gmail.com>
	<p2j94dd8f6f1004300250jef043ed8gd3767fd4f77a8050@mail.gmail.com>
	<k2pc676777d1004300301i5901da48td0da83880d83efd4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <w2z24b589d91004300341ve2fa40d8zd7b9c886ce09d54@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Solor Vox <solorvox at gmail.com> wrote:

> 7|25200|28800|1|07:00|49|/T254984|Magnum, P.I.|'Forty'. About to turn
> 8|28800|32400|1|08:00|49|/T254984|Magnum, P.I.|'Forty'. About to turn
> 6|25200|28800|1|07:00|49|/T254986|Magnum, P.I.|'Out Of Sync'. Magnum's
> 7|28800|32400|1|08:00|49|/T254986|Magnum, P.I.|'Out Of Sync'. Magnum's
> 8|25200|28800|1|07:00|49|/T254982|Magnum, P.I.|'On The Fly'. Magnum's
> 10|28800|32400|1|08:00|49|/T254982|Magnum, P.I.|'On The Fly'. Magnum's
> 6|25200|28800|1|07:00|49|/T254981|Magnum, P.I.|'Murder By Night'. A
> 7|28800|32400|1|08:00|49|/T254981|Magnum, P.I.|'Murder By Night'. A
>

According to Wikipedia, "Murder By Night" is episode 140, "On The Fly" is
episode 141, "Out of Sync" is episode 145, and "Forty" is episode 143, so
the numbers don't line up exactly but they are in the right order. That's
promising.

Cheers,
Steve
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From g8ecj at gilks.org  Fri Apr 30 12:18:09 2010
From: g8ecj at gilks.org (Robin Gilks)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:18:09 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<t2nc676777d1004281831h12d70d64g97da2069fc5b139a@mail.gmail.com>
	<w2v52bd4a781004281842p606f7c2elea9aa51b52dd4955@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <386c7e3c822e3de176b6cb32c922b9eb.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>


> A bit overkill for a sourceforge project, but maybe others can
> contribute and improve it.  I did some searching around and found a
> few people who said it couldn't be done.  So by all means, feel free
> to send me suggestions and changes.   It only took a few hours to
> knock out so there has to be room for improvement.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/mheg2xmltv/

I know its Friday and I'm usually a bit dim on Friday evenings but is
driving rb-download really as hard as it looks? It took me agaes to
discover that downloading the tarball for rb-browser doesn't include
rb-download!!

Anyone got a script yet that wraps it all up and kills off rb-download
after a suitable period to free up the tuner again?

Cheers

-- 
Robin Gilks




From hoiho.nz at gmail.com  Fri Apr 30 12:44:44 2010
From: hoiho.nz at gmail.com (Tony Sauri)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:44:44 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB-T MHEG EPG
In-Reply-To: <386c7e3c822e3de176b6cb32c922b9eb.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
References: <v2ic676777d1004111825kf7f02946v7e739d841a00bcdf@mail.gmail.com>
	<o2hc676777d1004282051v2cf7f8b5jbd78005150bfc378@mail.gmail.com>
	<386c7e3c822e3de176b6cb32c922b9eb.squirrel@gilks.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <201004302345.07809.hoiho.nz@gmail.com>

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:17, Robin Gilks wrote:

>
> Anyone got a script yet that wraps it all up and kills off rb-download
> after a suitable period to free up the tuner again?


Check my post in this thread on 11 April.

It is rough and you need to polish it to suit your system

Tony


From steven at openmedia.co.nz  Fri Apr 30 23:33:39 2010
From: steven at openmedia.co.nz (Steven Ellis)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 10:33:39 +1200
Subject: [mythtvnz] The use of CRIDs in MHEG and EIT streams
Message-ID: <73E724DB-1D8E-4F35-8C3B-A94390F31B0C@openmedia.co.nz>

Thought it would be worth while splitting the technical discussion of the CRID data from the current grabber thread until we have the details worked out.

I've managed to dig out the following references

CRID format
CRIDs carried in SI may be defined in such a way that the Scheme and Authority parts are carried once only if they are common to a group of CRIDs. However the format for CRIDs passed across the MHEG PVR API in any of the following Resident Program calls shall include the Scheme and Authority parts in all cases.
A CRID that does not include an instance identifier shall be in the format:
Scheme + Authority + Unique Identifier
A CRID that includes an Instance Identifier shall be in the format:
Scheme + Authority + Unique Identifier + # + Instance Identifier

Examples of CRIDs with and without Instance Identifiers follow:
	crid://company.tv/123df5
	crid://broadcaster.com/hef5w#e1
As specified by [DTG DTR] CRIDs carried in SI are case insensitive. However, MHEG-5 operations on strings are case sensitive. So:
? the following Resident Programs shall be case preserving ? operations relative to broadcast SI shall be case insensitive


Basically the myFreeview PVRs can book programs by either series ID or episode. The EIT stream on DTH also contains these crid fields so the PVR can match the booking to the correct program.

One other benefit is that if they start broadcasting EIT Actual then the PVR should realise when a program is delayed and re-schedule accordingly.

You can find the TV Anytime reference on CRIDs here
 * http://www.rfc-archive.org/getrfc.php?rfc=4078

Haven't found any reference on how a CRID is mapped to a particular show, of if it is program unique or program+network unique.

Steve


Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited
email   - steven at openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz

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